Altering humanity - what's the mental block about?

[Thinking Aloud]

Dumping 15 ccs of engineered blood cells into the body would have a reasonably dramatic effect on our metabolism.

We have enough bleeding resources to outfit most of the humans in America with an automobile and we can't give some people 15ccs of engineered blood? I don't think so.

But how often? I confess to knowing little about human biology, but I'd imagine the trick is to get the human body to generate its own modified blood cells.

[stripes4]

I think we should wrap up nice and warm and gradually expose ourselves and progeny to the mars environment. Some will die, and then natural selection will result in suitable biological adaption occurring without us even having to think about it. Either that or we'll all die, but its worth a shot.

[Clinton Huxley]

I think we should send Tat and Stripes to Mars

[stripes4]

I think we should send Tat and Stripes to Mars

I don't wanna

[Clinton Huxley]

I think we should send Tat and Stripes to Mars

I don't wanna

I think 9 months in a tin can followed by a lifetime on Mars is the only way to ensure "getting it on"

[stripes4]

I think we should send Tat and Stripes to Mars

I don't wanna

I think 9 months in a tin can followed by a lifetime on Mars is the only way to ensure "getting it on"

I can make a headache last a very long time

[Clinton Huxley]

Poor Tat.

[JimC]

I think we should send Tat and Stripes to Mars

I don't wanna

I think 9 months in a tin can followed by a lifetime on Mars is the only way to ensure "getting it on"

I can make a headache last a very long time

[GreyICE]

...and what about the brain?

For most people that does not appear to be on the surface of the human body, and thus is not rejecting heat into anything other than the rest of the human body. There's a very special breed of people who have their brains in their arse (we call em creationists) and they're probably in trouble, but... oh well.

Basic principle, heat is not magic, and does not teleport.

But how often? I confess to knowing little about human biology, but I'd imagine the trick is to get the human body to generate its own modified blood cells.

Why? The modified blood cells will be fine for what they're supposed to do - allow you to operate for long periods of time without access to oxygen, and allow your body to continue to operate for a period of time after the heart stops - probably about 1-2 hours (so you can restart it easier, with less risk).

Fully replacing blood with something 200+ times more efficient would be pretty cool, but operating long term in those conditions probably would mean substantially altering other aspects of our biology to let us do more useful things with that blood.

[GreyICE]

I suspect there is a little more to Marsifying a human than a few spoonfuls of super blood and a coating of bacowrap.

Sure. We need a rebreather to reduce the CO2 to oxygen, we need something to harden our eyeballs to remove the dangers related to the delicate eye membranes, we'd probably have to do something about the sinus system. Sweating would be a terrible thing, we'd just have to honestly limit that one a lot. Then Vitamin D, we're proposing to reduce the amount of sunlight humans absorb AND stick them further from the sun, that's just terrible. We'd need a better way to make that, or suppliments.

Really, what's so devastating about the challenge that we have an edict from God that we must terraform Mars rather than alter his perfect creation?

[JimC]

I suspect there is a little more to Marsifying a human than a few spoonfuls of super blood and a coating of bacowrap.

Sure. We need a rebreather to reduce the CO2 to oxygen, we need something to harden our eyeballs to remove the dangers related to the delicate eye membranes, we'd probably have to do something about the sinus system. Sweating would be a terrible thing, we'd just have to honestly limit that one a lot. Then Vitamin D, we're proposing to reduce the amount of sunlight humans absorb AND stick them further from the sun, that's just terrible. We'd need a better way to make that, or suppliments.

Really, what's so devastating about the challenge that we have an edict from God that we must terraform Mars rather than alter his perfect creation?

The real issue is that some of the changes you are describing are unlikely to be able to be done to adult volunteers.

So, you are looking at genetic engineering, or at least significant alterations to embryonic development.

Concern with ethical problems are not confined to the ranks of the god-botherers...

There has been some great SF stories on this topic, but SF is what they will remain for some considerable time to come...

[GreyICE]

I suspect there is a little more to Marsifying a human than a few spoonfuls of super blood and a coating of bacowrap.

Sure. We need a rebreather to reduce the CO2 to oxygen, we need something to harden our eyeballs to remove the dangers related to the delicate eye membranes, we'd probably have to do something about the sinus system. Sweating would be a terrible thing, we'd just have to honestly limit that one a lot. Then Vitamin D, we're proposing to reduce the amount of sunlight humans absorb AND stick them further from the sun, that's just terrible. We'd need a better way to make that, or suppliments.

Really, what's so devastating about the challenge that we have an edict from God that we must terraform Mars rather than alter his perfect creation?

The real issue is that some of the changes you are describing are unlikely to be able to be done to adult volunteers.

So, you are looking at genetic engineering, or at least significant alterations to embryonic development.

Concern with ethical problems are not confined to the ranks of the god-botherers...

There has been some great SF stories on this topic, but SF is what they will remain for some considerable time to come...

Which ones could not be done to adults? Hardened transparent surfaces over the eyes? Installation of a CO2 rebreather in the lungs? Removing or disabling sweat glands to reduce water loss? Vitamin D supplements?

I mean there must be one in particular you're thinking of. There's a host of technical upgrades I haven't even mentioned (short wave radiation could be a concern, we'd need to handle the stuff ozone usually filters - and oh hey, we're already changing our skin albedo, seems reasonable). But which of them has to be done on kids? Hell, for the most part growth inhibits a lot of this stuff - it's easiest to implant things in a physique that isn't going to change.

Science fiction can make great stories, but seriously man, we're talking about terraforming a fucking planet. This stuff is maybe 25-40 years in the future, terraforming is like infinity years in the future.

[normal]

I suspect there is a little more to Marsifying a human than a few spoonfuls of super blood and a coating of bacowrap.

Sure. We need a rebreather to reduce the CO2 to oxygen, we need something to harden our eyeballs to remove the dangers related to the delicate eye membranes, we'd probably have to do something about the sinus system. Sweating would be a terrible thing, we'd just have to honestly limit that one a lot. Then Vitamin D, we're proposing to reduce the amount of sunlight humans absorb AND stick them further from the sun, that's just terrible. We'd need a better way to make that, or suppliments.

Really, what's so devastating about the challenge that we have an edict from God that we must terraform Mars rather than alter his perfect creation?

When you think about it, it sounds easier to just terraform a bit. Release some microbes into the atmosphere, prod this, poke that.

Changing humans to such a degree that they're able to live on Mars would make them unfuckable. Have you thought about that? A race of super ugly people that perhaps wouldn't even want to breed with each other. Eye-shells? Come on! Eeew!

[GreyICE]

Microbes that require water to live? The driest desert on earth is a rainforest compared to Mars. Technologically that isn't very complex, until you start considering HOW MUCH water you need. Redirect a few comets to slam into the planet?

[normal]

Microbes that require water to live? The driest desert on earth is a rainforest compared to Mars. Technologically that isn't very complex, until you start considering HOW MUCH water you need. Redirect a few comets to slam into the planet?

I'd still like you to address the problem of ugly, unfuckable people that would be the result of too much altering.