A Few Thoughts on Sea Power

[Robert_S]

Yet most of the conflicts the US are in don't seem to be solvable by massive fire power .

Problems that are solvable by massive firepower have been finding it prudent to be be other people's problems lately.

[klr]

Hovercraft are the future

Another Brit invention that the Yanks stole from us,cunts.

You probably don't want to be reminded that just about every innovation in aircraft carrier development was made by the British. And then taken up by the Yanks, as usual.

[JimC]

One of the classic naval tasks of the past was the suppression of piracy. I know there has been some naval action by a variety of Navies off the coast of Somalia, but piracy still remains a problem there, and their bases are effectively off limits...

Much of the actions that would be routinely and ruthlessly taken by Navies of the past seem to be a little too hard, these days...

[Svartalf]

I blame the UN... without those fricken botherjobs, lots of powers would have taken the time and effort to annihilate the pirates properly... It's a task fitter for good old artillery than moder missiles, but we still have gunboats do we?

[JimC]

I blame the UN... without those fricken botherjobs, lots of powers would have taken the time and effort to annihilate the pirates properly... It's a task fitter for good old artillery than moder missiles, but we still have gunboats do we?

I would have thought that helicopters sweeping in and destroying all their fancy, fast speed boats in harbours with cannon fire or small guided missiles would do the trick... No need for indiscriminate shelling which would undoubtedly kill many women and children...

Pirates can't very well be pirates without boats, can they?

[Svartalf]

I advocate for a more extreme approach, the kind that would be teaching the Fear of the White Man to the survivors in case some of them still had a mind to return to piracy.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Pirates can't very well be pirates without boats, can they?

Well, the boats are fishing boats. We'd get scolded if we trashed all of them.

[JimC]

Pirates can't very well be pirates without boats, can they?

Well, the boats are fishing boats. We'd get scolded if we trashed all of them.

Good satellite imagery would surely separate the real fishing boats from the high-speed pirate raiders; you would be able to put a severe dint in their operations, anyway, if allowed to...

But the point of my first post in this thread was to suggest that sea-power today, even when wielded by its most powerful modern exponent, is severely constrained in comparison to the past. In a major conflict with relatively modern opponents, such constraints would disappear. However, there are many situations today involving low-level conflicts where political considerations out-trump military capability. A great pity, in the case of the Somali pirates...

[Robert_S]

It would be nice to do that, but then

a) we the navy accidentally destroys the legitimate source of livelihood for innocent fishermen.
b) the navy destroys pirate vessels and then someone comes forward to claim that they were actually the legitimate source of livelihood for innocent fishermen.

[JimC]

It would be nice to do that, but then

a) we the navy accidentally destroys the legitimate source of livelihood for innocent fishermen.
b) the navy destroys pirate vessels and then someone comes forward to claim that they were actually the legitimate source of livelihood for innocent fishermen.

And so, paralysis...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It would be nice to do that, but then

a) we the navy accidentally destroys the legitimate source of livelihood for innocent fishermen.
b) the navy destroys pirate vessels and then someone comes forward to claim that they were actually the legitimate source of livelihood for innocent fishermen.

And so, paralysis...

Yep. You have a fighting force that is constrained to fight ineffectively because of political consideration.


Now, where have I heard that before?

[Trolldor]

* "He who has command of the sea has command of everything." - Themistocles, Athens, circa 480BCE

* Goods are almost always cheapest when shipped by sea, hence seaborne commerce is vital to a robust economy. Because secure commerce is fundamental to maritime economic power, military and commercial capabilities at sea are interdependent. Domination of the seas is of the seas is of paramount importance in determining national supremacy. - Paraphrasing The Influence of Sea Power Upon History by Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan, US Navy, 1873

* "Command of the sea is the indespensible basis of security, and whether the instrument which exercises that command swims, floats or flies is a mere matter of detail." - Admiral Sir Herbert Richmond, Royal Navy, 1946

* "The US Navy controls all of the oceans in the world. Whether it's a dhow off the African coast, a tanker in the Arabian Gulf, a junk in the South China Sea or a cabin cruiser in the Carribean, every ship in the world moves under the eyes of American satellites in space and its movement is guaranteed -or denied- at will by the US Navy. The combined naval force of the rest of the world doesn't come close to equalling that of the US Navy. This has never happened before in human history, even with Britain." - Dr. George Friedman, STRATFOR, 2008

* "...the US battle fleet is larger than the next 13 navies combined, 11 of which belong to allies and partners..." - Rober Gates, US Secretary of Defense, 2009

Please discuss, criticize, parody or ignore.

Will need a lot of Sea Men.

[redunderthebed]

The problem is that us honkies come in with our giant trawlers considering somalia has no way of regulating its exclusive economic zone, therefor they cant get arrested and there boats destroyed if they come in take all the fish wreck the ecosystem and dump all their waste off the coast of somalia.These pirates almost all of them all things being fair and even would be subsistence fishermen what the western powers are doing is protecting boats doing things that we would in our exclusive economic zone arrest them destroy there boats and deport them (Australia for example does this all.the.time with indonesian fishermen that going into our water to fish up north and there boats have being torched).

Granted they have gone to other targets however that was the reason they started doing this because there livelihood was shit on so the spanish french etc can have there fish for tea. So you cannot expect people making money that otherwise would be on the bone of there arse to stop thats where the yanks war on drugs has fail miserable but thats for another day.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The problem is that us honkies come in with our giant trawlers considering somalia has no way of regulating its exclusive economic zone, therefor they cant get arrested and there boats destroyed if they come in take all the fish wreck the ecosystem and dump all their waste off the coast of somalia.These pirates almost all of them all things being fair and even would be subsistence fishermen what the western powers are doing is protecting boats doing things that we would in our exclusive economic zone arrest them destroy there boats and deport them (Australia for example does this all.the.time with indonesian fishermen that going into our water to fish up north and there boats have being torched).

Granted they have gone to other targets however that was the reason they started doing this because there livelihood was shit on so the spanish french etc can have there fish for tea. So you cannot expect people making money that otherwise would be on the bone of there arse to stop thats where the yanks war on drugs has fail miserable but thats for another day.

The problem is we didn't create this problem. The Somalis did. The place was a shithole before the piracy started.

[Ian]

* "He who has command of the sea has command of everything." - Themistocles, Athens, circa 480BCE

* Goods are almost always cheapest when shipped by sea, hence seaborne commerce is vital to a robust economy. Because secure commerce is fundamental to maritime economic power, military and commercial capabilities at sea are interdependent. Domination of the seas is of the seas is of paramount importance in determining national supremacy. - Paraphrasing The Influence of Sea Power Upon History by Admiral Alfred Thayer Mahan, US Navy, 1873

* "Command of the sea is the indespensible basis of security, and whether the instrument which exercises that command swims, floats or flies is a mere matter of detail." - Admiral Sir Herbert Richmond, Royal Navy, 1946

* "The US Navy controls all of the oceans in the world. Whether it's a dhow off the African coast, a tanker in the Arabian Gulf, a junk in the South China Sea or a cabin cruiser in the Carribean, every ship in the world moves under the eyes of American satellites in space and its movement is guaranteed -or denied- at will by the US Navy. The combined naval force of the rest of the world doesn't come close to equalling that of the US Navy. This has never happened before in human history, even with Britain." - Dr. George Friedman, STRATFOR, 2008

* "...the US battle fleet is larger than the next 13 navies combined, 11 of which belong to allies and partners..." - Rober Gates, US Secretary of Defense, 2009

Please discuss, criticize, parody or ignore.

Will need a lot of Sea Men.

I got lots of Sea Men.