Walter Humes is my new hero!

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by piscator » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:29 am

looks like the humanities are starting to pay the price for their infatuation with postmodernism...
1. Discourses of paradigm

In the works of Gibson, a predominant concept is the concept of capitalist art. Hubbard[1] holds that we have to choose between poststructural construction and dialectic theory.

“Sexual identity is fundamentally elitist,” says Derrida; however, according to Humphrey[2] , it is not so much sexual identity that is fundamentally elitist, but rather the fatal flaw, and some would say the dialectic, of sexual identity. Therefore, Sartre suggests the use of submodernist rationalism to challenge hierarchy. The subject is interpolated into a preconceptual discourse that includes truth as a paradox.

If one examines submodernist rationalism, one is faced with a choice: either reject capitalist neodialectic theory or conclude that expression is a product of communication, but only if Lacan’s essay on poststructural construction is valid. It could be said that if preconceptual discourse holds, we have to choose between submodernist rationalism and semiotic desublimation. Debord uses the term ‘preconceptual discourse’ to denote a self-falsifying totality.

“Society is a legal fiction,” says Lyotard. But Dahmus[3] suggests that the works of Gibson are modernistic. An abundance of appropriations concerning the role of the participant as observer may be discovered.

However, in Neuromancer, Gibson deconstructs poststructural construction; in Pattern Recognition, although, he reiterates submodernist rationalism. The subject is contextualised into a capitalist subdialectic theory that includes reality as a paradox.

Therefore, the primary theme of Wilson’s[4] critique of preconceptual discourse is the difference between class and society. If submodernist rationalism holds, we have to choose between preconceptual discourse and textual discourse.

In a sense, Debord uses the term ‘poststructural construction’ to denote a mythopoetical whole. Many narratives concerning submodernist rationalism exist.

Therefore, the failure of poststructural construction which is a central theme of Joyce’s A Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man is also evident in Ulysses. Hubbard[5] holds that we have to choose between neotextual desublimation and the material paradigm of consensus.

In a sense, Foucault uses the term ‘poststructural construction’ to denote not theory as such, but subtheory. Several materialisms concerning a self-supporting totality may be found.

It could be said that the main theme of the works of Joyce is the paradigm, and some would say the meaninglessness, of neodialectic narrativity. Marx uses the term ‘preconceptual discourse’ to denote the common ground between sexual identity and class.


2.Submodernist rationalism and cultural nihilism

If one examines subdialectic desublimation, one is faced with a choice: either accept preconceptual discourse or conclude that the media is intrinsically unattainable. However, if poststructural construction holds, we have to choose between preconceptual discourse and the conceptual paradigm of narrative. The premise of cultural nihilism states that sexual identity, somewhat surprisingly, has significance.

It could be said that Lyotard uses the term ‘neocapitalist narrative’ to denote a cultural reality. The characteristic theme of la Tournier’s[6] essay on poststructural construction is the role of the poet as writer.

But Marx promotes the use of cultural nihilism to read class. Dahmus[7] suggests that we have to choose between textual destructuralism and postconceptual rationalism.


3. Joyce and cultural nihilism

“Sexual identity is dead,” says Derrida; however, according to Sargeant[8] , it is not so much sexual identity that is dead, but rather the meaninglessness, and subsequent economy, of sexual identity. Therefore, Sontag uses the term ‘Lyotardist narrative’ to denote a mythopoetical paradox. Lacan’s model of poststructural construction implies that discourse must come from the masses.

In a sense, Lyotard uses the term ‘subcultural dialectic theory’ to denote not theory, but pretheory. If poststructural construction holds, the works of Joyce are an example of neocapitalist nihilism.

However, the subject is interpolated into a cultural nihilism that includes consciousness as a whole. Debord suggests the use of materialist feminism to attack sexism.

It could be said that Baudrillard uses the term ‘preconceptual discourse’ to denote the failure, and eventually the absurdity, of subcapitalist truth. Poststructural construction holds that narrativity is capable of truth, given that truth is interchangeable with narrativity.
4. Patriarchial narrative and precapitalist nihilism

The main theme of the works of Joyce is a self-referential reality. In a sense, Parry[9] suggests that we have to choose between precapitalist nihilism and Marxist socialism. An abundance of situationisms concerning preconceptual discourse exist.

However, in Finnegan’s Wake, Joyce deconstructs precapitalist nihilism; in Ulysses he denies preconceptual discourse. Sontag uses the term ‘precapitalist nihilism’ to denote not desublimation, as Baudrillard would have it, but neodesublimation.

But Derrida promotes the use of predialectic Marxism to analyse and modify sexual identity. The subject is contextualised into a preconceptual discourse that includes art as a whole.


5. Expressions of dialectic

If one examines poststructural construction, one is faced with a choice: either reject precapitalist nihilism or conclude that context comes from communication. Therefore, the example of preconceptual discourse depicted in Joyce’s Dubliners emerges again in Finnegan’s Wake, although in a more capitalist sense. The primary theme of von Junz’s[10] analysis of precapitalist nihilism is the futility of precultural society.

The characteristic theme of the works of Joyce is the role of the participant as writer. In a sense, in A Portrait of the Artist As a Young Man, Joyce deconstructs preconceptual discourse; in Dubliners, however, he affirms precapitalist nihilism. A number of discourses concerning a mythopoetical totality may be revealed.

Thus, Foucault’s model of poststructural construction holds that the Constitution is capable of social comment, but only if the premise of precapitalist nihilism is invalid; if that is not the case, class has intrinsic meaning. The destruction/creation distinction prevalent in Joyce’s Ulysses is also evident in Dubliners.

However, Bataille’s essay on conceptualist materialism suggests that the raison d’etre of the reader is significant form, given that reality is equal to sexuality. Lyotard suggests the use of poststructural construction to deconstruct the status quo.

In a sense, the primary theme of Prinn’s[11] analysis of precapitalist nihilism is not, in fact, deconstruction, but predeconstruction. If subtextual capitalism holds, we have to choose between precapitalist nihilism and semiotic sublimation.

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by Hermit » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:38 am

piscator wrote:looks like the humanities are starting to pay the price for their infatuation with postmodernism...
[snip]
You forgot to include the following footnote:
The essay you have just seen is completely meaningless and was randomly generated by the Postmodernism Generator.
http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/


Thanks for wasting my time.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by piscator » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:50 am

"The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth--it is the truth which conceals that there is none.

The simulacrum is true."

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by Hermit » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:06 am

piscator wrote:
Baudrillard wrote:The simulacrum is never that which conceals the truth--it is the truth which conceals that there is none. The simulacrum is true.
Yeah, like gravity or class struggle are simulacra concealing the fact that there is no truth.

The difference between post structuralism and the above "essay" is that the former can be criticised, while the latter isn't even meant to be.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by JOZeldenrust » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:04 pm

piscator wrote:looks like the humanities are starting to pay the price for their infatuation with postmodernism...
/snip/

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/
How so?

Postmodernism has made history into a real science, and has led to the epistemological unification of the humanties and the exact sciences. Just because Dawkins doesn't get it doesn't diminish the success that a postmodern aproach of science has had.

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by Trolldor » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:18 pm

*snork*

Postmodernism is entirely opposed to scientific development, to knowledge and to technological advancement.
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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by JOZeldenrust » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:51 pm

The Mad Hatter wrote:*snork*

Postmodernism is entirely opposed to scientific development, to knowledge and to technological advancement.
The notion that any scientific theory is a narrative that claims to refer to reality is a postmodern notion. In history, this has led to the understanding that the units historians observe can be operationalized as statistical entities that can vary in scale from the subatomic to the galactic. Generally, historians choose a scale somewhere inside the range from individual people to the human species, but this choice is partly normative. Likewise, particle physicists choose the units of their theories and the phenomena they research. These choices are normative choices, and scientists should be aware of this. Postsmodernism has made them aware of it, though some people remains blissfully ignorant.

Postmodernists aren't (categorically) opposed to scientific development, they just realize that the actuated scientific development is just a subset of all possible development, and that development can come from things we currently don't consider to be science. Neither are they opposed to knowledge. They just acknowledge that the problem of induction means that it's impossible to be certain that knowledge actully pertains to the world. Nor do they oppose technological advancement. They understand that the actual technological development is only advancement in a normative model, and that these normative models are the product of arational processes, which they often - slightly confusingly - call ideologies.

During the seventies postmodernism got fashionable, which resulted in mediocre thinkers copying the style of their idols, and flooding the market with meaningless word salad. In the mean time, postmodern thinking has had a huge impact on scientific thinking and practice. Thing is, in the exact sciences the practical implications of postmodernism are nigh non-existent. In a way the exact sciences brought about the postmodern idea that scientific theories are narrative constructs, when cosmologists realized that after the acceptence of the big bang model, cosmology had effectively become a historial science.

I understand you don't like postmodernism. Your criticism would carry more weight if you showed any understanding of the subject.

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by Trolldor » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:56 pm

lol.

Modernism was the philosophy which gave birth to challenging certainties, it just didn't reject the disciplines that presented conclusions.
Post-modernism throws out the baby, the bathwater, the tub and the plumbing.

Your criticism would carry more weight if you showed any understanding of the subject.
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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by JOZeldenrust » Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:06 pm

The Mad Hatter wrote:lol.

Modernism was the philosophy which gave birth to challenging certainties, it just didn't reject the disciplines that presented conclusions.
Post-modernism throws out the baby, the bathwater, the tub and the plumbing.

Your criticism would carry more weight if you showed any understanding of the subject.
Wow, you really showed me...

Skepticism, relativism, empiricism all "gave birth to challenging certainties". Care to give any substantial criticism of postmodernism?

Do you have any idea what postmodernism is?

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by piscator » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:21 pm

JOZeldenrust wrote:
piscator wrote:looks like the humanities are starting to pay the price for their infatuation with postmodernism...
/snip/

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/
How so?
"Humanities are withering at universities as schools are abolishing and reducing liberal arts courses to make room for job-friendly departments."

= the intro sentence of the excellent Korea Times article FBM linked in the post immediately preceding my quoted comment


Postmodernism has made history into a real science, and has led to the epistemological unification of the humanties and the exact sciences. Just because Dawkins doesn't get it doesn't diminish the success that a postmodern aproach of science has had.
I think it telling that you make a semantic and syntacticly deconstructive reply to a pragmatic and evidence-based point.
Until time machines allow for gathering direct and objective evidence, history will never be a science, merely a subject amenable to a science-like approach.

And while Dawkins' observations may not diminish the "success" of postmodern approaches to science, the Sokal Affair most certainly does.

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by JOZeldenrust » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:24 pm

piscator wrote:
JOZeldenrust wrote:
piscator wrote:looks like the humanities are starting to pay the price for their infatuation with postmodernism...
/snip/

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/
How so?
"Humanities are withering at universities as schools are abolishing and reducing liberal arts courses to make room for job-friendly departments."

= the intro sentence of the excellent Korea Times article FBM linked in the post immediately preceding my quoted comment
Nothing in the article to suggest any link to any perceived prevalence of postmodernism in the humanities.

The job market for students of the liberal arts isn't all that good at the moment, sure, and there really aren't any fundamental debates going on that seek answers in the humanities. The economic value of an education in the arts or humanities is pretty low at the moment, and there are very few signs that it's improving. But that doesn't diminish the potential for understanding of the world that art has.
Postmodernism has made history into a real science, and has led to the epistemological unification of the humanties and the exact sciences. Just because Dawkins doesn't get it doesn't diminish the success that a postmodern aproach of science has had.
I think it telling that you make a semantic and syntacticly deconstructive reply to a pragmatic and evidence-based point.
How is my reply semantic or syntacticly deconstructive? I'm not arguing about the meaning of words or phrases, and I certainly didn't deconstruct any syntax. Your post implied that postmodernism was the cause of the diminishing interest for the humanities. You presented no evidence for that claim.
Until time machines allow for gathering direct and objective evidence, history will never be a science, merely a subject amenable to a science-like approach.
And the exact sciences suffer from the same problem: it's impossible to directly experience physical events. You always have to work with the traces such events leave through your senses. The exact sciences can ignore this most of the time, because the units that the exact sciences study appear to be pretty uniform. The uniformity of elementary particles is an inductive step, though.
And while Dawkins' observations may not diminish the "success" of postmodern approaches to science, the Sokal Affair most certainly does.
No, it just demonstrates that the editors of Social Texts were idiots. A lot of people are. Some of them run pretentious pseudo-intellectual magazines.

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by Hermit » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:32 am

Whoops. Wrong thread. :oops:
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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by piscator » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:40 pm

JOZeldenrust wrote:
piscator wrote:
JOZeldenrust wrote:
piscator wrote:looks like the humanities are starting to pay the price for their infatuation with postmodernism...
/snip/

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/
How so?
"Humanities are withering at universities as schools are abolishing and reducing liberal arts courses to make room for job-friendly departments."

= the intro sentence of the excellent Korea Times article FBM linked in the post immediately preceding my quoted comment
Nothing in the article to suggest any link to any perceived prevalence of postmodernism in the humanities.

The job market for students of the liberal arts isn't all that good at the moment, sure, and there really aren't any fundamental debates going on that seek answers in the humanities. The economic value of an education in the arts or humanities is pretty low at the moment, and there are very few signs that it's improving. But that doesn't diminish the potential for understanding of the world that art has.
Postmodernism has made history into a real science, and has led to the epistemological unification of the humanties and the exact sciences. Just because Dawkins doesn't get it doesn't diminish the success that a postmodern aproach of science has had.
I think it telling that you make a semantic and syntacticly deconstructive reply to a pragmatic and evidence-based point.
How is my reply semantic or syntacticly deconstructive? I'm not arguing about the meaning of words or phrases, and I certainly didn't deconstruct any syntax. Your post implied that postmodernism was the cause of the diminishing interest for the humanities. You presented no evidence for that claim.
Until time machines allow for gathering direct and objective evidence, history will never be a science, merely a subject amenable to a science-like approach.
android vpn
And the exact sciences suffer from the same problem: it's impossible to directly experience physical events. You always have to work with the traces such events leave through your senses. The exact sciences can ignore this most of the time, because the units that the exact sciences study appear to be pretty uniform. The uniformity of elementary particles is an inductive step, though.
And while Dawkins' observations may not diminish the "success" of postmodern approaches to science, the Sokal Affair most certainly does.
No, it just demonstrates that the editors of Social Texts were idiots. A lot of people are. Some of them run pretentious pseudo-intellectual magazines.

ok, cool

i'll just take it that it's your position that there's not much evidence to suggest that the rise of postmodernism and the decline of humanities enrollments are related


i guess i could post some evidence (some of what others have written) to support my POV, but the subject just doesn't interest me that much and i have some other things pressing

so feel free to conclude that because i didn't properly support my statements, that no support for them exists


i'm sure we'll find other things to agree/disagree on in the future, but i just have to deprioritize this subject for the present

i hope you'll understand

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Re: Walter Humes is my new hero!

Post by JOZeldenrust » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:04 pm

piscator wrote:
JOZeldenrust wrote:
piscator wrote:"Humanities are withering at universities as schools are abolishing and reducing liberal arts courses to make room for job-friendly departments."

= the intro sentence of the excellent Korea Times article FBM linked in the post immediately preceding my quoted comment
Nothing in the article to suggest any link to any perceived prevalence of postmodernism in the humanities.

The job market for students of the liberal arts isn't all that good at the moment, sure, and there really aren't any fundamental debates going on that seek answers in the humanities. The economic value of an education in the arts or humanities is pretty low at the moment, and there are very few signs that it's improving. But that doesn't diminish the potential for understanding of the world that art has.
I think it telling that you make a semantic and syntacticly deconstructive reply to a pragmatic and evidence-based point.
How is my reply semantic or syntacticly deconstructive? I'm not arguing about the meaning of words or phrases, and I certainly didn't deconstruct any syntax. Your post implied that postmodernism was the cause of the diminishing interest for the humanities. You presented no evidence for that claim.
Until time machines allow for gathering direct and objective evidence, history will never be a science, merely a subject amenable to a science-like approach.
android vpn
And the exact sciences suffer from the same problem: it's impossible to directly experience physical events. You always have to work with the traces such events leave through your senses. The exact sciences can ignore this most of the time, because the units that the exact sciences study appear to be pretty uniform. The uniformity of elementary particles is an inductive step, though.
And while Dawkins' observations may not diminish the "success" of postmodern approaches to science, the Sokal Affair most certainly does.
No, it just demonstrates that the editors of Social Texts were idiots. A lot of people are. Some of them run pretentious pseudo-intellectual magazines.

ok, cool

i'll just take it that it's your position that there's not much evidence to suggest that the rise of postmodernism and the decline of humanities enrollments are related


i guess i could post some evidence (some of what others have written) to support my POV, but the subject just doesn't interest me that much and i have some other things pressing

so feel free to conclude that because i didn't properly support my statements, that no support for them exists
I won't. I'll hope you'll find the time to present your case at some later time.
i'm sure we'll find other things to agree/disagree on in the future, but i just have to deprioritize this subject for the present

i hope you'll understand
I do, and I appreciate your courtesy.

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