I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by klr » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:56 pm

Ronja wrote:Thanks, kir, that was educational. Your post contained more common sense than the six (seven?) lectures we had to endure. Was much more convincing, too.

Why? Well picture a lecturer with tens of theoretical research papers to his name, but not one practical DB project in the Real World (TM).
...
:doh:

No need to imagine. There's a certain class of academic who should never be let near the lecture theatre. They are there mainly to do research which earns money (mostly through grants) and garner prestige for the institution. Teaching students is way down on the list of priorities. Most of them are administratively incompetent as well. :I-love-pork:
Ronja wrote: And assigning a textbook from early 1990ies and using plastic overhead ... what the devil were those things even called??? You know, the analog powerpoints.
:lol:

They were called acetates, IIRC. :shifty:

Confession time: I was a lecturer once, in the early 1990's :pardon:. Then I decided I'd be better off doing, rather than teaching about things. It was a great improvement. :whistle:

The age of the textbook shouldn't be a problem in itself, not for database normalization as a topic. But it does reinforce the perception of someone who is well out of touch, but no-one is forcing him to review the curriculum and keep it up to date.
Ronja wrote: And he could not get through even one of his own examples (the same ones he has been using for at least 10 years, maybe 15), without making a logical error or a typo (usually more than one). :fp:
I'm disliking this guy more and more, but nothing you say surprises me. :banghead:
Ronja wrote:
GenesForLife wrote:Come on Ronja, you can do it, just two more days :biggrin:
I know I can. I just need to whine about it... :biggrin: Thanks for all the support! :hugs:
Good luck ... not that you need it. :tup:
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by leo-rcc » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:04 pm

klr wrote: Note to self: Keep away from MySQL forums. :coffee:
Like this one?
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by klr » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:09 pm

leo-rcc wrote:
klr wrote: Note to self: Keep away from MySQL forums. :coffee:
Like this one?
:hehe:

Hey, this forum could be using one of several different RDBMS . But I know it's using MySQL. I'm an Oracle man myself, but I'm not fussy. :levi:
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by Tigger » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:22 pm

What the fuck is all that? I have a maths degree and I never saw anything like that. Made up nonsense; ignore them and they'll go away.
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by leo-rcc » Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:26 pm

Tigger wrote:What the fuck is all that? I have a maths degree and I never saw anything like that. Made up nonsense; ignore them and they'll go away.
It's mathematical wankery.
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by klr » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:28 pm

Tigger wrote:What the fuck is all that? I have a maths degree and I never saw anything like that. Made up nonsense; ignore them and they'll go away.
Only Economists are allowed to do that ... :levi:
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by Ronja » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:15 am

leo-rcc wrote:
Tigger wrote:What the fuck is all that? I have a maths degree and I never saw anything like that. Made up nonsense; ignore them and they'll go away.
It's mathematical wankery.
:hehe: :tup:
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by Ronja » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:24 am

klr wrote:
Tigger wrote:What the fuck is all that? I have a maths degree and I never saw anything like that. Made up nonsense; ignore them and they'll go away.
Only Economists are allowed to do that ... :levi:
This is correct.

BTW: My uni (engineering of all sorts) recently merged with two others: the designers' uni and the economists' uni. Now the assistant head master ("prorector") has to answer uncomfortable questions from the press about how a course, lectured by the same person, equally many lectures, same assignments etc., if studied under the economy school's course code gives 6 ECT, but if studied under the engineering school's course code gives 3 ECT. :ddpan:
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger

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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by klr » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:03 am

Ronja wrote:
klr wrote:
Tigger wrote:What the fuck is all that? I have a maths degree and I never saw anything like that. Made up nonsense; ignore them and they'll go away.
Only Economists are allowed to do that ... :levi:
This is correct.

BTW: My uni (engineering of all sorts) recently merged with two others: the designers' uni and the economists' uni. Now the assistant head master ("prorector") has to answer uncomfortable questions from the press about how a course, lectured by the same person, equally many lectures, same assignments etc., if studied under the economy school's course code gives 6 ECT, but if studied under the engineering school's course code gives 3 ECT. :ddpan:
Bingo! It's exactly the same here. Since engineers have more to study than just about any other type of student, some of their modules have a lower ECTS than if they were taken by someone else. This is done so that engineers can have 60 ECTS for a full-time year like everyone else, whereas they really should have more.

This is a serious issue, especially because we base our budgeting and teaching resource allocation on calculations which use ECTS. So in this situation, a lecturer would need to teach twice as many engineering students as (say) business or science students to get the same budget or other resources. It's a crazy system, but I've long since stopped complaining about it. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that it's not just us. :lol:
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by JimC » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:15 am

I read the thread title as "I hate all normal forums", and thought, that's great, she must love rationalia! :hehe:
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by Ronja » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:44 pm

JimC wrote:I read the thread title as "I hate all normal forums", and thought, that's great, she must love rationalia! :hehe:
Are there any forums thay could be called normal? POINH! :biggrin:

And yes, I do love Rationalia and all us RatZ. As I've said before, and will no doubt say again in the future. :hugs: :huggeroo: :smooch: :cuddle: :flowers:
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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by Warren Dew » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:00 am

klr wrote:No, database normalization is incredibly important, to the point where it becomes second nature for a database application designer/developer like me. :ugeek:

Note to self: Keep away from MySQL forums. :coffee:
Sadly, a heck of a lot of commercial applications these days use unnormalized hibernation databases.

That way they can make it all the way through development without a database developer, and not realize they needed one until after the application goes live.

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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by Ronja » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:37 am

Warren Dew wrote:
klr wrote:No, database normalization is incredibly important, to the point where it becomes second nature for a database application designer/developer like me. :ugeek:

Note to self: Keep away from MySQL forums. :coffee:
Sadly, a heck of a lot of commercial applications these days use unnormalized hibernation databases.

That way they can make it all the way through development without a database developer, and not realize they needed one until after the application goes live.
:worried: That sounds scary. A bit like some of my fellow students who see no point in studying information systems, or even knowing what information system design or information architecture really means. After all, they already know operating systems, networks, protocols, and programming - surely there cannot be anything substantial they would still need to know? The same people usually scoff at usability, essentially saying that usability should be Somebody Else's Problem. :(
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger

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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by Ronja » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:47 pm

Ronja wrote:I'm revising for an exam, and have to let off steam to be able to go on. If I manage to keep my mind on these beauties (and a bit more) for the next 48 odd hours, I may never need to take a look at them ever again!
I PASSED! I PASSED!! NEVER WILL I NEED TO BE LOGICAL EVER AGAIN!!!

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"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger

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Re: I *HATE* normal forms - all of them!

Post by Trolldor » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:48 pm

Well done. As per guideline 42 you will now be required to drink copiously while posting here.
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