Why Johnny can't code

[Xamonas Chegwé]

But the idea that they don't really know how the damn things tick ...

God makes the electrons go there.

But we also had to learn our times tables ... do they still do that at primary level? Or do kids now just use calculators for everything?

They are shown the times tables - trouble is, learning them involves repetition and, above all, use. When you have a calculator that will do it for you, why bother putting in the hours? The same is, unfortunately, true of basic programming skills and other things like spelling - the spell checker does it for you - why learn it?

[Robert_S]

But the idea that they don't really know how the damn things tick ...

God makes the electrons go there.

But we also had to learn our times tables ... do they still do that at primary level? Or do kids now just use calculators for everything?

They are shown the times tables - trouble is, learning them involves repetition and, above all, use. When you have a calculator that will do it for you, why bother putting in the hours? The same is, unfortunately, true of basic programming skills and other things like spelling - the spell checker does it for you - why learn it?

I had a horrible time trying to memorize those stupid tables.

Learning BASIC was a breeze.

[klr]

But the idea that they don't really know how the damn things tick ...

God makes the electrons go there.

But we also had to learn our times tables ... do they still do that at primary level? Or do kids now just use calculators for everything?

They are shown the times tables - trouble is, learning them involves repetition and, above all, use. When you have a calculator that will do it for you, why bother putting in the hours? The same is, unfortunately, true of basic programming skills and other things like spelling - the spell checker does it for you - why learn it?

I had a horrible time trying to memorize those stupid tables.

Learning BASIC was a breeze.

Yes, but you were a bit older when you turned your hand programming, no? Learning multiplication tables by rote is for young children.

Programming can also be very addictive. What a pity that youngsters spend their time getting addicted to computer games, and not to the coding behind them.

[Robert_S]

God makes the electrons go there.

But we also had to learn our times tables ... do they still do that at primary level? Or do kids now just use calculators for everything?

They are shown the times tables - trouble is, learning them involves repetition and, above all, use. When you have a calculator that will do it for you, why bother putting in the hours? The same is, unfortunately, true of basic programming skills and other things like spelling - the spell checker does it for you - why learn it?

I had a horrible time trying to memorize those stupid tables.

Learning BASIC was a breeze.

Yes, but you were a bit older when you turned your hand programming, no? Learning multiplication tables by rote is for young children.

Programming can also be very addictive. What a pity that youngsters spend their time getting addicted to computer games, and not to the coding behind them.

I had to have outside help just to get that shit into my head, although in the process I was also taught to see mathematics a game of finding patterns, which is much more valuable IMO, than memorization.

Programming is a way of thinking, of expanding one's understanding and power. Memorizing tables is just tediously stamping neurons, it is not at all like programming, it is more like data entry.

[Warren Dew]

Yes, but you were a bit older when you turned your hand programming, no? Learning multiplication tables by rote is for young children.

I don't know about him, but I didn't really learn my multiplication tables until my 30s, after I learned programming. In fact, I think I learned them as a result of programming, tracing code when hunting for bugs and making sure the registers contained the numbers I was expecting.

[Robert_S]

Yes, but you were a bit older when you turned your hand programming, no? Learning multiplication tables by rote is for young children.

I don't know about him, but I didn't really learn my multiplication tables until my 30s, after I learned programming. In fact, I think I learned them as a result of programming, tracing code when hunting for bugs and making sure the registers contained the numbers I was expecting.

I think for some people it is almost useless to try to just memorize something. I found that I memorize best when I'm doing something that requires me to use the stuff I'm supposed to memorize.

[hiyymer]

I came across this last week. It's is a few years old, but just as relevant now as when it was written, if not more so. Ostensibly, it's about a narrow area of technology (computer programming), but it has wider implications IMHO ...

Why Johnny can't code

BASIC used to be on every computer a child touched -- but today there's no easy way for kids to get hooked on programming.

Oh Gawd. Basic sucks, sucks, sucks. When I learned c, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. And unlike basic, c actually is fairly close to the machine. C++ and Java (both pretty much evolved c), are now the programming languages of choice for commercial apps for very good reason. Teach your kid c, not basic.

My step son taught himself how to program in c. He put unix on a pc, started playing with machine language, started getting into hacking (we paid the lawyer the retainer on the possibility that the FBI might come knocking on the door), first good job was for network security company for close to three figures, etc etc. His high school called him least likely to succeed. Couldn't hack college either. But he got his revenge; showed up at the senior prom three years later in his BMW convertible ("no it's not my dads").

When I was in college we put the fortran card decks with the rubber band around them in the box at the computer center, and came back to find out how we did the next day (if the grad students had time to run them). Error on card 3. The guy at the punch card machine next to me is swearing a blue streak. I am thinking, wow that's interesting; why would it give that error? I knew right then I was a coder.

Those that are coders will find it. No need for MS to do anything.

[Robert_S]

I came across this last week. It's is a few years old, but just as relevant now as when it was written, if not more so. Ostensibly, it's about a narrow area of technology (computer programming), but it has wider implications IMHO ...

Why Johnny can't code

BASIC used to be on every computer a child touched -- but today there's no easy way for kids to get hooked on programming.

Oh Gawd. Basic sucks, sucks, sucks. When I learned c, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. And unlike basic, c actually is fairly close to the machine. C++ and Java (both pretty much evolved c), are now the programming languages of choice for commercial apps for very good reason. Teach your kid c, not basic.

My step son taught himself how to program in c. He put unix on a pc, started playing with machine language, started getting into hacking (we paid the lawyer the retainer on the possibility that the FBI might come knocking on the door), first good job was for network security company for close to three figures, etc etc. His high school called him least likely to succeed. Couldn't hack college either. But he got his revenge; showed up at the senior prom three years later in his BMW convertible ("no it's not my dads").

When I was in college we put the fortran card decks with the rubber band around them in the box at the computer center, and came back to find out how we did the next day (if the grad students had time to run them). Error on card 3. The guy at the punch card machine next to me is swearing a blue streak. I am thinking, wow that's interesting; why would it give that error? I knew right then I was a coder.

Those that are coders will find it. No need for MS to do anything.

I think the strongest point is that in the old days, you started off programming. The very first thing I ever did on a computer was write a program. Later, I put a cassette tape in and loaded someone else's program. It's the opposite way now, so many potentially talented coders aren't giving it a try.

[hiyymer]

I think the strongest point is that in the old days, you started off programming. The very first thing I ever did on a computer was write a program. Later, I put a cassette tape in and loaded someone else's program. It's the opposite way now, so many potentially talented coders aren't giving it a try.

Maybe so. I remember a gig I worked on. One of us was a hard working decent coder without a lot of imagination. He got the jobs like building the dialog objects (intranet app - no web pages). I was chatting with our fearless leader one day. He says, "you know forty years ago John would have been a damn good auto mechanic." Like everything else, it takes all kinds.

[Tigger]

[trivial]I love programming, but I'm shit at it. I did once create a program that you could use to calculate stuff with Roman numerals. Damnit there's one here: http://www.guernsey.net/~sgibbs/roman.html[/trivial]

[Feck]

MS (bless their Satanic hides) are also developing a version of Basic called SmallBasic, which is aimed specifically at children.

But most children - even many of those who would take readily to programming - are unlikely to be exposed to even languages like these in the first place.

My son's school were asking for feedback and I suggested Scratch to them. I got the blank stare. Shame, because it's intuitive enough for 6-7 year olds to pick up.

Does this mean I might be able to understand it ?

[Pappa]

Another good think I've seen for kids is another drag and drop programming environment that comes with Lego Mindstorms NXT (robots). Again, it fully introduces all the important concepts of programming in a way that has a very shallow learning curve, with immediate results and the concepts are general enough to be applicable to any other type of programming they might want to go on to learn. Don't forget, while many people still program in a text editor, almost all professional application development is now done via IDEs. Kids are probably better getting used to using more automated processes that they will encounter in IDEs and all of their fabulous, labour-saving shortcuts like code hinting, code completion, code folding, drag and drop linkage of classes, etc., etc.

BASIC is boring and time consuming. Today's kids would be much better starting somewhere that gives them more immediate results in a way that teaches them programming concepts quickly.

[Pappa]

MS (bless their Satanic hides) are also developing a version of Basic called SmallBasic, which is aimed specifically at children.

But most children - even many of those who would take readily to programming - are unlikely to be exposed to even languages like these in the first place.

My son's school were asking for feedback and I suggested Scratch to them. I got the blank stare. Shame, because it's intuitive enough for 6-7 year olds to pick up.

Does this mean I might be able to understand it ?

Yeah, easy. Download it and have a play around:

http://scratch.mit.edu/

[Hermit]

I grew up in a time when computers still meant programming.

My grandfather grew up at a time when cars meant hands on mechanical knowledge. The pioneering days don't last long. Computers - like cars - have become switch on / switch off type tools. Skills, such as the computer equivalent for repairing your own innertube, priming carburetors or defouling spark plugs have become largely irrelevant. Time for you to move on. Anyway, there is nothing stopping kids from becoming programmers or mechanics today, if they feel so inclined. If the former, they might just have to learn something like C++ instead of ancient languages like BASIC or Fortran.

[Pappa]

Subjectively, there doesn't really seem to be a lack of new programmers. Programming is basically a form of creative problem solving and I'm sure kids who get a kick out of that sort of thing probably find their way to it eventually. Maybe they go from gaming into game design nowadays... it's not that hard to jump directly into 3D game design with no knowledge of BASIC or other old languages (if you're into that sort if thing). The C family of languages are pretty intuitive and not difficult to pick up once you understand the basic concepts of programming. While some might think starting with old languages is a good idea, I don't think it's really relevent to today's world, where IDEs and drag and drop features are the norm.