A Possible Change In The Rules - RatSkep tangent

[maiforpeace]

Only an idiot would think that "The Shadow" had anything to do with anything like Dungeons and Dragons, but, then, idiots think a lot of things.

The Shadow knows...

Not just idiots Lamont - a lot of young people here in the US that are TMH's age wouldn't remember "The Shadow", and TMH is in Australia. I would also say the statement "The Shadow knows..." is a uniquely American idiom.

I would also guess most people here probably didn't know that was the origin of your user name.

[starr]

I am disappointed by the rationalia members who have spent little, if any, time at RatSkep and yet seem to think they know how I operate, how the RatSkep staff operate, and how the forum operates.

I don't fit this definition, and I'm the star malcontent. I do know how things operate--remember?

You are correct. You do not fit this definition. Neither does Lamont or Kiki. I have not intended for any of my posts in this thread to be addressing any of you and I'm sorry if it has seemed that way. In my own mind it was obvious but obviously it wasn't obvious to others. You are not the people I am addressing here in this thread. This is a Rationalia thread and I'm talking about Rationalia in my posts here.

[charlou]

It seems that Rationalia Style TM reponses are only viewed as clever and funny and an attempt to diffuse drama when they are employed by clique members.

Obviously I am not in the clique because my posts are being perceived as passive aggressive and there seems to be an opinion by some members that I'm just here to upset people and cause trouble. That is not the intention behind my posts in this thread and I am sorry if I have upset anybody. I was under the impression that Ratz can laugh at themselves and that Ratz encourages free speech ... especially satire... although I'm now wondering whether satire directed towards the Rationalia Style TM is not encouraged.

Some people can pull satire off with genuine panache, rather than smarmy snide pancake.

Are you not even wondering WHY your posts are perceived that way? You haven't upset me, only my stomach .. but I've resisted the urge to post that smilie in response to your pancake rabbit.

I almost resisted posting this response to you as well ... almost.

[LaMont Cranston]

starr, I know virtually nothing about you and have no history with you. I do have a bit of a history with Durro and quite a few other people who are members (some of them mods) at ratskep. It really does seem to me that if the folks who make the decisions at ratskep and ban people, etc. really are the kind of people they claim they'd like to be, including being fair and rational human beings, they might reconsider some of the moves they've made. I suspect that some of the mod types really do know they've been mean-spirited, uptight and worse, and they don't want to admit that they've done some very unkind things to some people who were members of ratskep.

It takes strong people to admit to the error of their ways, but making those admissions and fixing past errors in judgement are very positive things to do. I don't know all of the stories and how everything came down, but I do know enough of the particulars to know that they would get a lot more of the respect they seem to be looking for if they issued apologies to some, preferably all, of those people to whom they've been so rude, arrogant and unkind. It is possible to fix past errors in judgement. It requires strong and loving people to do that.

[LaMont Cranston]

The Mad Hatter, It really doesn't come as much of a suprise to have you admit that the young'un that you are spends a lot of time playing games and jerking off on the net. It would come as quite a suprise to find that you get laid on anything that approaches a regular basis. It would come as a downright shock to find out that you had a girlfriend.

The Shadow knows...

[starr]

It seems that Rationalia Style TM reponses are only viewed as clever and funny and an attempt to diffuse drama when they are employed by clique members.

Obviously I am not in the clique because my posts are being perceived as passive aggressive and there seems to be an opinion by some members that I'm just here to upset people and cause trouble. That is not the intention behind my posts in this thread and I am sorry if I have upset anybody. I was under the impression that Ratz can laugh at themselves and that Ratz encourages free speech ... especially satire... although I'm now wondering whether satire directed towards the Rationalia Style TM is not encouraged.

Some people can pull satire off with genuine panache, rather than smarmy snide pancake.

Are you not even wondering WHY your posts are perceived that way? You haven't upset me, only my stomach .. but I've resisted the urge to post that smilie in response to your pancake rabbit.

I almost resisted posting this response to you as well ... almost.

Or perhaps my points have hit just a little too close to home..... just sayin' .

[Trolldor]

The Mad Hatter, It really doesn't come as much of a suprise to have you admit that the young'un that you are spends a lot of time playing games and jerking off on the net. It would come as quite a suprise to find that you get laid on anything that approaches a regular basis. It would come as a downright shock to find out that you had a girlfriend.

It comes to me as no surprise just how little you understand about the modern world. When you're done with your prostate exam you may want to take some time to catch up on the recent developments that have occured since the invention of the steam engine.

[charlou]

The Mad Hatter, It really doesn't come as much of a suprise to have you admit that the young'un that you are spends a lot of time playing games and jerking off on the net. It would come as quite a suprise to find that you get laid on anything that approaches a regular basis. It would come as a downright shock to find out that you had a girlfriend.

The Shadow knows...

LaMont, the other staff members largely disagree that some of your earlier posts in this thread that were reported were in breach of our guidelines. I think your posts have been borderline at the very least. The post I am quoting here definitely is over the line, IMO. I am reporting it.

[Trolldor]

Only an idiot would think that "The Shadow" had anything to do with anything like Dungeons and Dragons, but, then, idiots think a lot of things.

The Shadow knows...

Not just idiots Lamont - a lot of young people here in the US that are TMH's age wouldn't remember "The Shadow", and TMH is in Australia. I would also say the statement "The Shadow knows..." is a uniquely American idiom.

I would also guess most people here probably didn't know that was the origin of your user name.

Actually, I was familiar, but I happen to be more immersed in the 21st century than the 'women in the kitchen' era, and it's a phrase I've heard a number of times used by people who take certain things a little too seriously.

[charlou]

Or perhaps my points have hit just a little too close to home..... just sayin' .

Not at all. Your view of what is going on is obviously coloured by the assumptions you're making, and it's coming across in your posting demeanor .. It's not pretty to watch.


I was just listening to the radio in the car a few minutes ago ... abc news radio ... the human crisis in Pakistan with the flooding there ...

Fuck, this squabble is so petty.

[Hermit]

It seems that Rationalia Style TM reponses are only viewed as clever and funny and an attempt to diffuse drama when they are employed by clique members.

Obviously I am not in the clique because my posts are being perceived as passive aggressive and there seems to be an opinion by some members that I'm just here to upset people and cause trouble. That is not the intention behind my posts in this thread

You mean clever, funny and an attempt to diffuse drama like this post of yours?

If anyone comes here with a grievance about RatSkep.... there are a number of members here who almost have an immediate orgasm from the sheer excitement of it all.

Oh, the smiley at the end makes it so, I suppose. Or was it meant to be satirical?

Don't give up your day job just yet, Starr. For someone who thinks that a comment like that from a RDFII Senior Moderator is diffusing a problem with clever, funny and satirical remarks rather than actually adding more fuel to a fire started by former RDFII moderator, you seem to have a lot to learn about the craft. Oh, and 'the clique'. Wait till the Commandant hears about this. He'll rip another one in his own, inimical style, unless of course he can see the funny, clever and satirical subtext in that expression. Given the context you used it in, I'm not holding my breath, though.

[Trolldor]

It seems that Rationalia Style TM reponses are only viewed as clever and funny and an attempt to diffuse drama when they are employed by clique members.

Obviously I am not in the clique because my posts are being perceived as passive aggressive and there seems to be an opinion by some members that I'm just here to upset people and cause trouble. That is not the intention behind my posts in this thread and I am sorry if I have upset anybody. I was under the impression that Ratz can laugh at themselves and that Ratz encourages free speech ... especially satire... although I'm now wondering whether satire directed towards the Rationalia Style TM is not encouraged.

I'm sure someone said here in this thread that whoever is here is Ratz now. I'm here aren't I? In fact, I've been a member here for over a year now.

I am also a member at RatSkep and it is my preferred forum of the two. That doesn't mean one is better and one is worse. They are just different.

There is a small number of very vocal Ratz members who seem to have not yet recovered from the 2008 RDF schism. This vocal minority of Ratz members seem to foster and encourage dissent about RatSkep here at Rationalia. They seem to want to keep fighting RDF and they see RatSkep as the next best thing.

I have nothing against anyone who felt/feels aggrieved by RatSkep moderation. I am disappointed by the rationalia members who have spent little, if any, time at RatSkep and yet seem to think they know how I operate, how the RatSkep staff operate, and how the forum operates.

You can keep making your snide remarks that 'people have to come here to complain about RatSkep because at RatSkep they do not listen to member complaints about moderation'. Those remarks are unfounded and untrue. I am not responding to issues about RatSkep moderation here at Rationalia because I respond to issues about RatSkep moderation at RatSkep. That is the appropriate venue and, contrary to some of the ill-informed opinions in this thread, the RatSkep staff do listen and we do care about the members and the forum. We also continually reassess our practices and 'take a good hard look at ourselves'. Yes our moderation style is different to the Rationalia style of moderation. You like it your way and we like it our way. My impression is that both styles, although different, are coming from an underlying desire to create and foster a strong community and to be fair to all members.

It appears to me to be that here people are expressing their own individual opinions. In one case, they have information and anecdotal evidence about how Ratskep functions, or perhaps they take issue (such as myself) with a particularly enforced rule, or perhaps they feel that there is a present issue if members there feel like they can't voice objection there.

See, what's amusing is this line:

I am not responding to issues about RatSkep moderation here at Rationalia because I respond to issues about RatSkep moderation at RatSkep.

If you have no wish to address the issues, then why are you here? There is nothing for you to contribute to a thread created about problems with RatSkep moderation if you have no desire to talk about problems with ratskep moderation. All that's left is you painting all objectors in a negative light.


You want to know that the Ratz style is? It's whatever you want it to be. I am most often inclined to post whatever remark I feel most obliged and on occassions wish I hadn't, others feel they have to tread very carefully around their remarks, others are self-righteous and never see error in what they do, others are brilliantly entertaining and can never make an error. Some are with conviction, some are understanding. The humour of ratz comes from familiarity.
Your posts aren't funny when we don't understand you, or when they're just not funny.

[Spinozasgalt]

Interesting thread.

[starr]

RatSkep

Gallstones, good on you. If they do happen to take your comments on board with a positive response 1. I'll be very surprised, and 2. Please post it here.


Really, WTF?

I'm just glad that this forum provides a venue where RatSkeps can have an actual discussion

ahehehe .. hyeah.

And there has been unfair punitive treatment of Seth.

Bull-fucking-shite! He's a nasty abusive poster
*snip*
What a fucking load of shite.

He abuses other posters personally, not their arguments. There's a difference.

Yes, abusing arguments is so much more constructive.

Tell me, people from RatSskep, could this thread right here exist in your forum without the ban hammer or the thread-locked hammer falling?

Hmmmm?

Good question.

Were you being ironic, FBM?

On the first part. On the second part, I was trying to point out how stoopid it is for us to be chewing each others' limbs off when the common enemy only benefits from our in-fighting.

I agree with you but the only problem I have is that if they cannot shit on there own door step they come and shit on ours.

Ah Pen

They're airing grievances here because they don't feel they can do it there. Let them slog it out here if they need to ... noone's obliged to watch or participate.

I have a question.

Why the hell are you lot even having this argument on Rationalia? What the fuck has it got to do with us?

I've only been reading for the last 2 pages but I can't see why this forum is being used as battlefield.

The way I see it, the whole 'us' and 'them' thing evaporates as soon as they sign up here. They're Ratz now...

Oh for fuck's sake, stop the high-horsing.
We are not 'all one'. Not even amongst the 'old guard' are we 'all one'.

Secondly, if they want to bitch about Ratskep here, whether or not it's the right thing is irrelevant, they're entitled to do it. If they feel they can't do it over there, then they can bring their nonsense and their baggage over here and do it in a nice, tucked away little corner which you should be able to opt out of if you don't want to deal with it.
Hopefully misconceptions will be cleared up and they'll move on, or maybe not. Who knows and who cares?

Wow, nice thread.

Mods, please deactivate my account.

Wow, nice first post in five months!

So one thread that has an unusually large number of RatSkep members, that have been mostly non-regular members here arguing humourlessly about RatSkep has caused you to reject the whole of Rationalia and its membership?

To clarify further...

They're members here too, and welcome to discuss what they want and need to.

Made of Stars, sorry to see you go but that's your call. If you change your mind you'll be welcome.

ah yes.

... but it wouldn't be here if RatSkep didn't have an ethos and implemented policy of shutting people up. Dictating discussion boundaries, thread locking and deletions ... They can do it their way, but they should not be surprised when some people don't feel they can discuss things on that forum.

People can discuss any subject here ... and rationalia issues are aired, discussed, argued to bitter words sometimes, right here on our own forum. We resolve things more often than not that way and I like that we can be so open and honest and still go and have a laugh with each other in the pub.

I think I'll start a thread at Ratskep making shit up about Rationalia and see how many Rationalia-types take offense...

I couldn't give a ratz arse.

And by the way, racists, sexists, homophobes and bigots deserve to be treated like the pieces of shit they are.

The key point is, that here, they are met by rational debate (and usually trenchant criticism) rather than the ban hammer...

There's this little thing called freedom of speech...

Yes, over there he couldn't call such groups 'pieces of shit', for a start ... which is what this is all about, it seems.

I'm actually sympathetic to RatSkeps's need for a stricter style of moderation. When you have a larger group of posters, you're going to attract a great many more troublesome ones. Here, it is easier to take things on a case-by-case basis and apply some creativity to each situation. I don't know if it would be quite the same with a higher volume.

It wouldn't, because rather than change the rules, we'd ask for more mods and delegate the tasks more.

Certainly worked well enough when 1000 or so new members turned up in February.

Yes please. I'm not being facetious, I'm just not entirely sure what you mean.

I mean that Ratz lurve drama. Ratz lurved anti-RDF drama sooooo much.... and now, to get their fix, they are on the methadone program of anti-RatSkep drama. It's a little bit pathetic really.

And, yet, here you are.

...there are a number of members here who almost have an immediate orgasm from the sheer excitement of it all.

Please don't get too excited now. rEvolutionist and cohort had things well and truly in hand for quite a while before you joined the discussion, though apparently any solution is yet to come.

ahehehe

But it's not hiding your passive aggressive tone very well so why bother?

True.

Actually, I'm still treating this thread as an indirect commentary about that proposed rule change here at Rationalia.

We do have a perfectly good thread for such commentary. Care to resume discussing it in the thread where this topic was initiated, rather than in this internecine quarrel?

Actually, I was thinking the same thing as Robert .. The post that kicked this thread off and the subsequent discussion is still relevant to that discussion.

So glad people feel they can debate these issues here ... people debating the issues rather than projectively ejaculating with smarmy smilies is preferred.

In response to the person/people who asked for evidence of post deletions at RatSkep, I don't have any. The claim was based on two things: hearsay and my own belief that RatSkep staff are running that forum the same way the RDF forum was run. I concede that I may have been wrong on that point so I withdraw it. If RatSkep staff don't delete, remove or edit posts, or otherwise fiddle about with posting history, that's a point in their favour.

It seems that Rationalia Style TM reponses are only viewed as clever and funny and an attempt to diffuse drama when they are employed by clique members.

Obviously I am not in the clique because my posts are being perceived as passive aggressive and there seems to be an opinion by some members that I'm just here to upset people and cause trouble. That is not the intention behind my posts in this thread and I am sorry if I have upset anybody. I was under the impression that Ratz can laugh at themselves and that Ratz encourages free speech ... especially satire... although I'm now wondering whether satire directed towards the Rationalia Style TM is not encouraged.

Some people can pull satire off with genuine panache, rather than smarmy snide pancake.

Are you not even wondering WHY your posts are perceived that way? You haven't upset me, only my stomach .. but I've resisted the urge to post that smilie in response to your pancake rabbit.

I almost resisted posting this response to you as well ... almost.

Or perhaps my points have hit just a little too close to home..... just sayin' .

Not at all. Your view of what is going on is obviously coloured by the assumptions you're making, and it's coming across in your posting demeanor .. It's not pretty to watch.


I was just listening to the radio in the car a few minutes ago ... abc news radio ... the human crisis in Pakistan with the flooding there ...

Fuck, this squabble is so petty.

There have been a lot of people saying that RatSkep staff, and me personally, should take a long hard look at themselves. We do and we will continue to. We are not perfect, we do our best. We care about our members and our community very much. As I said, I discuss RatSkep moderation issues at RatSkep with RatSkep members. That is the appropriate venue. My responses on this thread have been directed towards Rationalia (which is the forum I am currently posting on funnily enough). Issues about a particular forum are best addressed on that forum and I'm not going to be dragged into specific RatSkep issues over here. I am a Rationalia member when I am posting here and it is not appropriate for me to be discussing RatSkep moderation issues here.

The reason I have joined this thread is because I am disappointed that the negative attitudes that used to be directed towards RDF here (by some members) have now been transferred to RatSkep. Some Ratz members have a strong prejudice against RatSkep and, because these particular members really haven't had much to do with RatSkep, I am assuming it must be part of a personal issue they had with the 2008 RDF schism (which occurred before I joined RDF).

I very much like RatSkep and (apart from this anti-RDF and now anti-RatSkep sentiment) I very much like Rationalia. Both forums are run in different ways and I think that's a good thing. Variety is the spice of life and all that.

I tried, and obviously failed, to make this point with humour. I'm sorry about that. It most likely depends which side of the fence you are on as to which comments appear snide and which appear satirical.

[LaMont Cranston]

starr, Charlou & others, Actually, there's more to what I'm suggesting we consider that apologies could and should be issued from those in power at ratskep who have treated quite a few people in a mean-spirited and shabby manner. I am suggesting that we consider forgiveness as a rational way, perhaps the most rational way, of finding a winning solution to this matter.

One of the problems with forgiveness is that it is so heavily associated with Jesus. As soon as somebody mentions the word "forgiveness," people start thinking, "Oh, boy, here it comes, this asshole is going to lay a Jesus trip on me."

However, acts such as apologizing and forgiving are about what human beings can do; they have nothing to do with whether or not God exists or anything else. Many of us have found that actually forgiving ourselves and others is a tremendously powerful thing to do. How about we take Jesus and all of that religious window dressing off of the table? Let's consider the act on a clear-thinking, rational and scientific basis. If we were to all find forgiveness in our hearts, would it accomplish a peaceful and pleasurable solution to this situation? Would it bind up those conceptual wounds that have long existed between the members of rationalia and ratskep?

If I was going to wax Biblical, I'd probably say something like "And so I sayeth unto you that those fineth forgiveness in their hearts will know greater love..."
Fortunately, I don't want to wax Biblical...