A Possible Change In The Rules - RatSkep tangent

[pErvinalia]

rEvolutionist, I don't recall anybody portraying the mods at ratskep (other than you, of course) as an "evil bunch of anti-free speech dictators." However, you can put me down for uptight, close-minded, rigid, irrational and rather cowardly.

Cowardly?!? FFS.

I think that many of us think that strong people do not need to cower from controversial viewpoints and differing opinions. In fact, I think that strong people welcome the opportunities to substantiate, as best as they can, their ideas, and welcome chances to justify what they believe and how they came to believe what they do.

You're right. We're all so weak over there. Thanks for setting us straight.

As was pointed out earlier in this thread, the rule against group attacks came about because the users demanded it.

FIFY.

This is a nice thread to tell the story from your perspective, should you want to.

That's what I've been doing. But it seems some people would prefer to peddle/believe a sensationalist twist on the reality of ratskep. I don't know what else I can add to what I've said already. I see Gallstones doesn't seem to be around anymore, so there's little reason to hang around. Listening to a bunch of people who barely ever posted over there tell me how fucked ratskep is, is kinda leaving a sour taste in my mouth.

[pErvinalia]

rEvolutionist, Actually I didn't say that all of the folks at ratskep are weak, and you have no chance of attributing those words to me. However, your attempts to attribute words like that to myself and others speak volumes about your own defensiveness and the weakness of your arguments.

I suspect that the folks who started ratskep were more than a bit shell-shocked at the meltdown of Dawkins as a person and RDF as a forum. Because some of those folks felt that way, they were (and apparently still are) quick to hit the old panic button. I haven't followed the goings on at ratskep much, but I'm under the impression that Kiki, Gallstones and a number of others who I know to be good people have run into some problems with the rigid, uptight atmosphere that exists at ratskep.

Yes, weak people think they have to cower and be protected from controversial and emotionally charged ideas and viewpoints. More than that, they think that it is their self-appointed duty to protect others from those same things, whether or not those others have asked for that protection.

[my bold]

Who are these "weak people" if not us over at Ratskep? Are you seriously trying to say that you aren't inferring that we are weak over there? Fuck me there's some hyprebole going on here.

[pErvinalia]

I don't know, but I have a feeling that the reason those rules are in place was little to do with cowardice and a great deal to do with being fed up with trolls spamming up the boards.

If you define "troll" to mean "someone the moderator persoally disagrees with", perhaps.

Yes, that's right Warren, it's all a big conspiracy. You do understand that no single moderator ever sanctions/bans anyone, right? They all confer and discuss the most appropriate action ranging from none to sanction. And for the nth time, people get plenty of warnings to change their behaviour, and there are plenty of us, including you, who manage to post without getting suspended for trolling. When are you going to understand that a "troll" isn't someone the moderators don't like, but someone who constantly derails threads?

[pErvinalia]

Imagination Theory, Thank you for posting that stuff. I've always liked Kiki going back to our days on RDF, and I have an even higher opinion of her now. The fact that she is that up-in-your-face and fiery makes her all the more likeable to me.

It took me awhile to get next to Gallstones, but I fully believe that she is another strong, no bullshit kind of person who has a genuine appreciation of beauty, nature and a lot of other things.

Yes, the people at ratskep have gotten rid of some of us shit-stirrers, and I think that ratskep is all the poorer and much duller for it. I don't expect this to happen, but I think that if the mods at ratskep really had balls, they'd issue apologies to those of us they found too difficult to deal with and welcome us back with open arms.

WTF?!?

Of course, it would take strong people to do something like that...

Well let's see how open to free-speech you are here eh? You're a fucking slimy spineless bastard with your weak as piss passive-aggressive quips. It's gutless wankers like you that I'm glad we get rid of over there. Why don't you grow a set and stop pussy footing around?

Oh, and by the way, when I get a warning for this post, I expect that you will get one too for your personal attack on me above.

[pErvinalia]

Imagination Theory, Thank you for posting that stuff. I've always liked Kiki going back to our days on RDF, and I have an even higher opinion of her now. The fact that she is that up-in-your-face and fiery makes her all the more likeable to me.

It took me awhile to get next to Gallstones, but I fully believe that she is another strong, no bullshit kind of person who has a genuine appreciation of beauty, nature and a lot of other things.

Yes, the people at ratskep have gotten rid of some of us shit-stirrers, and I think that ratskep is all the poorer and much duller for it. I don't expect this to happen, but I think that if the mods at ratskep really had balls, they'd issue apologies to those of us they found too difficult to deal with and welcome us back with open arms. Of course, it would take strong people to do something like that...

I don't know either of them, but I'm sure they are likable and great people. Definitely. They did break the FUA though, which they agreed to follow when they signed up. It isn't as if the Mods are out to get them.

If they or others want the rules changed they and all members can discuss it. However until they are changed all members must follow the current rules or face the consequences.


You think it is duller but I think it is better. I guess that is why I am more over there and you more over here. *Shrugs*

I'm sorry, but could you give me your definition of "strong"?

[pErvinalia]

Even I'm bored shitless of this thread now.

Any chance of some decent drama folks, a proper inter-forum shitstorm preferably?

See above. Glad to oblige.... :twisted:

[Trolldor]

Cheers for that. But truth be told, I don't actually care what Hitchens had to say, as it has nothing to do with ratskep. And besides, many of us think Hitchens is a dick.

Firstly, it was an example and has a lot to do with this discussion.

By banning attacks on ideologies, and on groups, and movements, you've effectively removed any passionate argumentation because all of a sudden nobody is allowed an opinion on anything unless it's complimentary. And that ban on attacks must be applied universally. Anybody who degrades pedophiles as Hitchens did would have to be warned. They're attacking a group of people in a way which would cause offence.


Secondly, that you believe your dislike of him means anything at all only highlights a major problem.

Oh, and by the way, when I get a warning for this post, I expect that you will get one too for your personal attack on me above.

If there was a personal attack, all you have to do is report the offending post.

[kiki5711]

Imagination Theory, Thank you for posting that stuff. I've always liked Kiki going back to our days on RDF, and I have an even higher opinion of her now. The fact that she is that up-in-your-face and fiery makes her all the more likeable to me.

It took me awhile to get next to Gallstones, but I fully believe that she is another strong, no bullshit kind of person who has a genuine appreciation of beauty, nature and a lot of other things.

Yes, the people at ratskep have gotten rid of some of us shit-stirrers, and I think that ratskep is all the poorer and much duller for it. I don't expect this to happen, but I think that if the mods at ratskep really had balls, they'd issue apologies to those of us they found too difficult to deal with and welcome us back with open arms.

WTF?!?

Of course, it would take strong people to do something like that...

Well let's see how open to free-speech you are here eh? You're a fucking slimy spineless bastard with your weak as piss passive-aggressive quips. It's gutless wankers like you that I'm glad we get rid of over there. Why don't you grow a set and stop pussy footing around?

Oh, and by the way, when I get a warning for this post, I expect that you will get one too for your personal attack on me above.

Your true colors have finally come out. Lamont is a person of quality you'll never be.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, I thought so. It is still against the rules though. You didn't think it was unfair of them to do, did you?

I think so, even though I'm not a big fan of kiki's posts. Kiki was basically baited into breaking the rules by one of the people against whom the moderators do not enforce the rules. If the moderators there enforced the rules uniformly, it would be a different situation, but using the rules as a weapon to get rid of people they don't like while people they do like are allowed to ignore the rules without consequences - yes, that's unfair.

That sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Could you back it up?

I've been baited before, I just ignored it though and followed the FUA (which I agreed to do).

So Kiki was "basically" baited. She broke the rules. If she really wanted to say something back she could have PM'd the person who "basically" baited her. She wanted to say that on purpose though, she just write that above. And you're trying to tie the blame with another member and the Mods. Right.

Exactly. The overriding theme from the "complaints" in this thread and the ones back on RS is that it's "not my fault, someone else is to blame". People just need to start taking some personal responsibility. And the silly thing is that Seth, the suspended poster who Gallstones is all worked up over, bleats on and on about personal responsibility, yet he has sooked that it wasn't his fault he got banned from RDF, and now GS and Warren are basically trying to say that it wasn't his fault that he got a 6-month suspension from RS. Pulease.

[Trolldor]

Your true colors have finally come out. Lamont is a person of quality you'll never be.

[pErvinalia]

That sounds like a conspiracy theory.
Could you back it up?

Just go through and collect all the formal and informal warnings against various personalities on the forum. You'll find that the ratio of formal warnings to informal warnings is very low for the favored posters, much lower than for the posters the moderators generally dislike.

Why don't you do it Warren? You're the one making all the wild claims.

[pErvinalia]

Cheers for that. But truth be told, I don't actually care what Hitchens had to say, as it has nothing to do with ratskep. And besides, many of us think Hitchens is a dick.

Firstly, it was an example and has a lot to do with this discussion.

By banning attacks on ideologies, and on groups, and movements, you've effectively removed any passionate argumentation because all of a sudden nobody is allowed an opinion on anything unless it's complimentary. And that ban on attacks must be applied universally. Anybody who degrades pedophiles as Hitchens did would have to be warned. They're attacking a group of people in a way which would cause offence.

Ok, thanks for your expert opinion on how ratskep works. I better head over there now and set the mods straight, as there are a shitload of threads that apparently should be banned.

Secondly, that you believe your dislike of him means anything at all only highlights a major problem.

What it means is not that we dislike him because he's fat and sweaty say, but because he's a right wing hawk since 9/11 and his arguments are heavily rhetorical and theatrical but not particularly rational. I like listening to the guy precisely because of his theatrics, but I don't think he does the cause of atheism and rationality much good. And there are a quite a number of us from rdf and rs who think that. Just sayin'.

Oh, and by the way, when I get a warning for this post, I expect that you will get one too for your personal attack on me above.

If there was a personal attack, all you have to do is report the offending post.

Well I thought it was all free-speech and pink unicorns over here. I was just pre-emptively making that point that I was personally attacked first, and that LaMont is a snivelling arse-wipe who is CLEARLY inferring that we are weak over there, but then has the temerity to feign indignation when this is pointed out to him. And to be honest, I'm being somewhat rhetorical myself, because some of the nonsense that has gone on in this thread (i.e. peoples points of view being belittled with no discussion but the application of an inane smiley, or a juvenile fart/bum/dick/snot/whatever joke), suffers highly from irony. Here we have a number of people suggesting that speech and ideas are shut down by the mods at ratskep, yet in this very thread the same thing is happening via the membership. So someone could come to rationalia under the pretense that all ideas are welcome and open for discussion, but find that as soon as they post something not to the "clique's" liking, they will be harangued with a barrage of inane smilies and crap humour. The irony is too much.

[pErvinalia]

Imagination Theory, Thank you for posting that stuff. I've always liked Kiki going back to our days on RDF, and I have an even higher opinion of her now. The fact that she is that up-in-your-face and fiery makes her all the more likeable to me.

It took me awhile to get next to Gallstones, but I fully believe that she is another strong, no bullshit kind of person who has a genuine appreciation of beauty, nature and a lot of other things.

Yes, the people at ratskep have gotten rid of some of us shit-stirrers, and I think that ratskep is all the poorer and much duller for it. I don't expect this to happen, but I think that if the mods at ratskep really had balls, they'd issue apologies to those of us they found too difficult to deal with and welcome us back with open arms.

WTF?!?

Of course, it would take strong people to do something like that...

Well let's see how open to free-speech you are here eh? You're a fucking slimy spineless bastard with your weak as piss passive-aggressive quips. It's gutless wankers like you that I'm glad we get rid of over there. Why don't you grow a set and stop pussy footing around?

Oh, and by the way, when I get a warning for this post, I expect that you will get one too for your personal attack on me above.

Your true colors have finally come out. Lamont is a person of quality you'll never be.

Hmm, another personal attack. This free-speech thing is great, not.

[LaMont Cranston]

rEvolutionist, Let's see...where to begin?

You say you have a sour taste in your mouth. Have you tried brushing your teeth? To the best of my knowledge, I have made no personal attacks on you. I have made comments about the general attitude of some of the decision makes at ratskep, and, as far as I know, you don't pack the weight to be one of those people. To that list that included irrational, cowardly, rigid, uptight, etc., you can also put me down for thinking those same people are wimpy and whiney.

As for your wwords that include "spineless bastard, etc." I'd like to thank you for providing Kiki, myself and some others with a few good laughs. The only question I have for you is "If you think ratskep is so fucking great, why are you spending so much time over here throwing an ongoing tantrum?"

As for you or I getting reported, I have found Xamonas and most of the others over here to be very nice people who have pretty good senses of humor and a very real appreciation of nonsense. I have no doubt that most of them are laughing along with the rest of us. See you around...

[Trolldor]

The irony is too much.

Not really.

They're free to present any opinion they want, and the membership is free to respond to that opinion however they want. If the responses are just single smilies or dirty jokes, then that's their freedom to respond as such. If the response is reasoned and extensive, then that too is their freedom. What we don't have are rules regulating which opinions are valid and which aren't.

Secondly, even on the matter of personal attacks there isn't agreement. The only reason I see any use for it is because the drama llama is hepped up on caffeine around the old RDF community.