Staff moderation of Mafia games

[charlou]

Consider letting your more diplomatic colleagues work with members on this.

Ok, just ignore me when I say "Take a hike" then.

Gawdzilla, please remove yourself from the discussion. Seriously, you have no call to be talking to oblivion this way.


oblivion, I'm sorry. Please don't let his comments push you away. I, for one, am very grateful to you for what you have built here for us and regretful that things are not going well at the moment. I hope we can sort it out and get back to enjoying the games again.

I also want to express my regret to veteren of forum wars for how his game turned out, and for the misunderstanding about managing the players/moderation. I think we need to discuss that aspect more before future games ...


Reading through the posts up to Gawdzilla's, I'm disappointed that things seem to have deteriorated overnight. I agree that the most recent threats to suspend were heavy handed and inappropriate. Criticism is often not easily heard or accepted, especially when there is a feeling that its coming from 'outsiders' who want to change what people have become comfortable with. I welcome criticism, though I may not always agree with it.

I just wanted to get that out there before reading on ...

[charlou]

gandalf, I have no problem with your lolspeak. I think you're cute.

[gandalf]

gandalf, I have no problem with your lolspeak. I think you're cute.

[charlou]

Consider letting your more diplomatic colleagues work with members on this.

Ok, just ignore me when I say "Take a hike" then.

hey look that's neither friendly nor welcoming, oh man the modz are gonna burrrrrn ur ass

To be fair, I'm being equally dismissive of him. I'm just doing it more passive-aggressively, because that appears to be the acceptable way at Ratz to tell people to fuck off.

No, telling you to take a hike is no more acceptable than telling someone to fuck off under our guidelines.


Gawdzilla, this is a reminder to heed the guidelines.

[Ayaan]

Yes, I really would like to discuss what the problems are. However, making broad insinuations of staff hypocrisy and incompetence is not going to get us any where. I'm will to discuss specific issues, but only if there is going to really be a discussion and not just implied insults and name-calling. I've moderated on several forums and I always try to find out what's going on before making a decision.

Cool I can certainly explain my perception of what's happened recently, and what I've found upsetting - understand this isn't all in reference to you personally. I certainly don't think I've made any broad insults; it appears to me that to a certain degree, staff here are simply conflating all posters who have come here recently from TR who become involved in this and mentally labelling them troublemakers. The focus is likely on protecting the community, but we're not all the same. I'm not BartRob, or green tentacle, or gandalf. I'm not going to spam the forum with goatse, or tell anyone to shut the fuck up; even at TR, it's pretty rare for me to insult anyone. But because I came here with some of the others, I'm looked on with suspicion, and threatened with a suspension when I indicate that it's rather unfair to suspend someone else for a post they've already been warned for simply because they're not showing proper deference to the moderators.

I have to admit that there was some discussion of sock puppets of some of the recently suspended members, which may account in part for your reception. Also, I wasn't asking for deference, just for something more productive than insinuations of hypocrisy - like this post, sparklecat.

That sort of behavior on the part of moderators is reprehensible, and I absolutely meant my insinuations that some of you are acting as badly as the mods at Rapture Ready did, in my experience. It's not even simply that it's unfair to BartRob, and myself, and anyone else who gets caught up during this circling the wagons behavior. It's terrible for the site as well. The kind of atmosphere that sort of thing fosters is poisonous, and encourages abuse of power. Your job as moderators isn't to force people to agree with you, or show you proper respect. It's to facilitate communication between all your members within the rules of the site. And threats aren't the best way to go about that. Neither is suspending people because they're not pandering to your ego sufficiently, and I'm sorry if FBM feels offended by my characterization of his motives there, but it's really how his behavior came off to me and others I've talked to.

I'm trying to facilitate communication now. Heck, this is the most work I've done here in months. I hate that you and some of the others got caught up in some of the suspicions; however, we have been set straight and I really hope we can go from here and make this a fun place again for everyone - including our mafia game players.

The right way to go about this is exactly what you're doing, Ayaan; talk with people, find out what their problems are, and work together to find a solution that both members and staff are happy with. But you can't dismiss their concerns because you don't like how they're being presented; if gandalf, for example, is expressing that he feels the moderators are behaving hypocritically, find out why rather than threatening him for doing so, and consider whether there's something in your own attitude that warrants that criticism. There may well not be; I'm uncertain what precisely he was referring to with his post myself, but it's still important to consider all feedback and recognize the fact that anyone in a position of power is inevitably prone to corruption. Even if it's just a message board moderator.

Good, glad you feel this is going to help. Sorry if I came on strong earlier, but it looked to me like JimC was being called a hypocrite and after knowing him for years, I can vouch that he's one of the most fair-minded and least hypocritical people I know. Don't claim to be perfect, just human. Even I sometimes react without fully thinking it through.

I've never played the mafia game, in fact, until the past two or three days I'd not paid much attention to the mafia game forum. People seem to enjoy playing it and if something is now keeping people from doing that, I want to know what it is and discuss a solution. No point in ruining something that people find fun because of a lack of communication. I'm here, I'm willing to listen, but I need to know what the problems are - not just that someone thinks the staff are hypocrites or that the moderation on this forum sux.

I hope I've helped clear up some of what is bothering people; others, of course, will have different concerns. Mafia is simply about having fun, and you've absolutely got a right to run your games according to a more friendly set of rules than TR operates under. It's your site. Just... don't overreact to things that aren't even insults. Don't treat us like children to be punished for talking back to you. That's only going to engender more hostility. And for god's sake, can we try to avoid the 'if you don't like it, fuck off' sort of comments? I've only posted like, 10 times, sure, but I'm a member here too and I have a right to have my concerns heard and addressed fairly. Oblivion deserves that even more, with what she's put into this.

Thanks for telling me your concerns. This is what I need to know. You are a member here and deserve to have your concerns addressed. I do apologize for come on a bit strong. I'm afraid I've let my stressful week influence my actions and I know better.

It would be great if we could get this worked out and get the game going again. All of you, please stay and let's see what we can do.

[gandalf]

man no apology for me after all that

[Ayaan]

man no apology for me after all that

I am sorry for coming on so strong. I want everyone to enjoy the game - and perhaps some of you will check out the rest of the forum and discuss cheese vs bacon and make bad puns.

[gandalf]

cool i think u will all come to find i am a trollsrs poster with a ♥ of g0ld. altho i still think zigmen is a lil hitler wannabe for prebanning me from his game

eta wtf why did it change < 3 into ♥ its like a violation of my human rights

[sparklecat]

But because I came here with some of the others, I'm looked on with suspicion, and threatened with a suspension when I indicate that it's rather unfair to suspend someone else for a post they've already been warned for simply because they're not showing proper deference to the moderators.

I have to admit that there was some discussion of sock puppets of some of the recently suspended members, which may account in part for your reception. Also, I wasn't asking for deference, just for something more productive than insinuations of hypocrisy - like this post, sparklecat.

Might have a more in-depth response later, but just to clarify for now, I was talking about BartRob's lack of deference, which is a situation I don't think you were publicly involved in.

[sparklecat]

Also, yeah, Ayaan and Charlou's efforts here are definitely helping to correct a bad first impression.

[Ayaan]

But because I came here with some of the others, I'm looked on with suspicion, and threatened with a suspension when I indicate that it's rather unfair to suspend someone else for a post they've already been warned for simply because they're not showing proper deference to the moderators.

I have to admit that there was some discussion of sock puppets of some of the recently suspended members, which may account in part for your reception. Also, I wasn't asking for deference, just for something more productive than insinuations of hypocrisy - like this post, sparklecat.

Might have a more in-depth response later, but just to clarify for now, I was talking about BartRob's lack of deference, which is a situation I don't think you were publicly involved in.

Ah, now I understand a bit better now.

Also, yeah, Ayaan and Charlou's efforts here are definitely helping to correct a bad first impression.

Glad of that. My impressions have also been changed for the better.

[oblivion]

You can't make members tolerate each other. But you can require that their expressions of intolerance stay within the rules and can be careful not to play favorites or take sides. That's been missing IMO. Magicziggy and Ghatanothoa (and I for that matter, in my interactions with Gawdzilla) have been tolerated. The people reacting to them have been warned off.

And I'm especially concerned about Zigmen and gandalf. They have a history of pissing each other off that you guys aren't familiar with. Zigmen is being accepted, and even encouraged to exclude gandalf. And people are piling onto gandalf in part because of his leetspeak and in part (I think) because Zigmen has poisoned the well.

[charlou]

You can't make members tolerate each other. But you can require that their expressions of intolerance stay within the rules and can be careful not to play favorites or take sides. That's been missing IMO. Magicziggy and Ghatanothoa (and I for that matter, in my interactions with Gawdzilla) have been tolerated. The people reacting to them have been warned off.

And I'm especially concerned about Zigmen and gandalf. They have a history of pissing each other off that you guys aren't familiar with. Zigmen is being accepted, and even encouraged to exclude gandalf. And people are piling onto gandalf in part because of his leetspeak and in part (I think) because Zigmen has poisoned the well.

I've asked Zigmen to reconsider in his mini mafia thread. I'd like gandalf to play.

[FBM]

Oh, boy. Look, gang, I want to apologize if it looked like I was being heavy-handed or demanding that people pander to my ego. I was blunt with BartRob because he'd just come back from a suspension and started telling people to "shut the fuck up" and generally showing that he had no intention of getting along with others. My only intent in being blunt with him was to get the problem solved as quickly as possible so as to restore a friendly atmosphere. That's it. I mean, if I really had an ego problem, would I be wearing a tiara and overalls?

Like I said before, I don't lump all the people who come over from TR into one category. What one person does only represents that one person. I'm glad you all are here, and I'm just hoping we get the bugs worked out so that the games can continue and everybody can have the good time they came here to have.

[sparklecat]

Oh, boy. Look, gang, I want to apologize if it looked like I was being heavy-handed or demanding that people pander to my ego. I was blunt with BartRob because he'd just come back from a suspension and started telling people to "shut the fuck up" and generally showing that he had no intention of getting along with others. My only intent in being blunt with him was to get the problem solved as quickly as possible so as to restore a friendly atmosphere. That's it. I mean, if I really had an ego problem, would I be wearing a tiara and overalls?

You warned him:

shut the fuck up

See this? If a member doesn't like being addressed that way and you know it, it's an example of not playing nice.

shut the fuck up

Bartholomew Roberts, this is a reminder that such comments are only allowed if both partners are willingly engaged in joking insults. Charlou is not, and you know that. If you continue, we'll be forced to take stronger action. Please play nice as per the rules you signed off on when you signed up here. Thanks.

specifically saying that if he continued, you'd be taking stronger action. He did not continue, but he did somewhat mock your threat:

help! no! not stronger action!

Some of us on staff get the impression that you might like to take a vacation to think about this matter. Is that the case?

to which you responded with a stronger threat. He expressed incredulity, and was told that not taking staff posts seriously enough would result in consequences:

are you seriously doing this? jesus christ, dude.

BLUE means serious - dude. If you are spoken to by a member of staff in BLUE, then take it seriously or be ready for the consequences. Would you like to step away from the precipice?

Then he was suspended for the post you had previously warned him over, saying that he should discontinue, or else:

guys is it ok to flame green tentacle for being a flaming homosexual douchebag or is that against the rulez?

eta: can banned pplz read this forum i hope they can read this forum

I doubt very much that you would be allowed to use homosexual in an insult. What the hell are you guys on over there. Normal rules of common decency suspended so you can live out all of your fantasies at once. Just my opinion. Have a rethink.

yeah, that's exactly what it is.

See, I'm scared that people would punch me in real life if I said what I thought so I come online to say it where I am safe.


shut the fuck up magicziggy. do you even think about what you say?

Bartholomew Roberts has been suspended for 48 hours for this post.

He didn't deserve that suspension, and it ought to be reversed and apologised for. To re-use my earlier analogy, you're treating him like a schoolchild being punished for backtalk. It's condescending and unhelpful; it's only likely to escalate matters. I can see how you might take his reply to you as an indication that he didn't intend to post within the rules, but shouldn't he have the right to not actually be suspended until he's broken them again after you've warned him?