It's not our concern to make sure that others live the way we live
"our" meaning the US? 
What would a true communist society/country look like?
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sandinista
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
Coito ergo sum
"our" meaning the US?
"our" meaning the US? Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
YES IT FUCKING IS!
You can not claim to be the leader of the freeworld and make no effort to ensure the freeworld is one of equality.
You can not claim to be the leader of the freeworld and make no effort to ensure the freeworld is one of equality.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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Robert_S
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
It has been our (The US's) concern.
There's an argument to be made that we individualists should deal with people on an individual basis, but if we are dealing with a group of individuals that identify as a group then it gets complicated.
If the vast majority of x country want to try communism, we ought to let them, provided they let all the individualists make there way out.
personally, I tend toward a mixed economy leaning more toward democratic socialism as the enterprises get larger and/or more dangerous.
There's an argument to be made that we individualists should deal with people on an individual basis, but if we are dealing with a group of individuals that identify as a group then it gets complicated.
If the vast majority of x country want to try communism, we ought to let them, provided they let all the individualists make there way out.
personally, I tend toward a mixed economy leaning more toward democratic socialism as the enterprises get larger and/or more dangerous.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
Fuck it all. Money is an act of cowardice.We willingly apply value to the insubtantial. There comes a time were everyone indivual must be greater than the sumof his or her own parts.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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Robert_S
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
I've lived on no money. It gets old after a while.The Mad Hatter wrote:Fuck it all. Money is an act of cowardice.We willingly apply value to the insubtantial. There comes a time were everyone indivual must be greater than the sumof his or her own parts.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
-Mr P
The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange
Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
Goddamnit.
If I sue Jack Daniels, would I win?
"You have forced me to introspection!"
If I sue Jack Daniels, would I win?
"You have forced me to introspection!"
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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AnInconvenientScotsman
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
As regards the US's "duty" to spread their quality of life - assuming that their quality of life is best for everyone - does that also entail the spreading of democracy and liberalism? If so, through what measures? (eg. military force?)
When I feel sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead.
True story.
True story.
SUIT UP!
"Dear God, dear Lord, dear vague muscular man with a beard or a sword,Dear good all seeing being; my way or the highway Yahweh,
The blue-balled anti-masturbator, the great all-loving faggot-hater
I thank your holy might, for making me both rich and white"
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LaMont Cranston
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
sandinista, Look, nobody is denying that there are inequities in the world, economically and otherwise, and it's always been that way, even before there were so-called "liberal democracies." If you want to blame all of those inequities on those liberal democracies, organized religions or anything else, you can go ahead on and do that, but, so far, you have not offered anything resembling a solution to the problems of the world.
Yes, college students get "carried away," or "excited" about political ideas that are new for them, and they think they have stumbled across ideas that are actually new. It's not like that. These "new" ideas have been around for a long time, and many of them have been demonstrated to not work. OK, if they're not overbearing or phoney, how about we go with "sophmoric?" After all, there's nobody who knows more about everything than a 19 years old who has just discovered a new idea that doesn't work.
There are many things I wish for, but so fucking what? I can't say that I wish for more people to be passionate about politics; it seems to me that there are plenty of people who are passionate about their political beliefs already, and many of them (i.e. the ones who admire Sarah Palin), are full of shit. Simply being passionate about politics, if you have naive political beliefs, only polarizes people and doesn't accomplish much of anything.
What's also true is that you can be interested in politics, and that doesn't mean you accept the status quo. If fact, passionate people often tend to be highly irrational about the state of the status quo. It seems to me that if rational people are going to do anything about the status quo, they must be willing to recognize the status quo for what it is. People like Gandhi and Martin Luther King took on the status quo and did some truly remarkable things. They were passionate and dedicated to the principles in which they believed, and it took guts to do what they did.
In your case, it is quite easy to point fingers at the problems of the world. Do you actually have any ideas other than ones that have already failed?
Yes, college students get "carried away," or "excited" about political ideas that are new for them, and they think they have stumbled across ideas that are actually new. It's not like that. These "new" ideas have been around for a long time, and many of them have been demonstrated to not work. OK, if they're not overbearing or phoney, how about we go with "sophmoric?" After all, there's nobody who knows more about everything than a 19 years old who has just discovered a new idea that doesn't work.
There are many things I wish for, but so fucking what? I can't say that I wish for more people to be passionate about politics; it seems to me that there are plenty of people who are passionate about their political beliefs already, and many of them (i.e. the ones who admire Sarah Palin), are full of shit. Simply being passionate about politics, if you have naive political beliefs, only polarizes people and doesn't accomplish much of anything.
What's also true is that you can be interested in politics, and that doesn't mean you accept the status quo. If fact, passionate people often tend to be highly irrational about the state of the status quo. It seems to me that if rational people are going to do anything about the status quo, they must be willing to recognize the status quo for what it is. People like Gandhi and Martin Luther King took on the status quo and did some truly remarkable things. They were passionate and dedicated to the principles in which they believed, and it took guts to do what they did.
In your case, it is quite easy to point fingers at the problems of the world. Do you actually have any ideas other than ones that have already failed?
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sandinista
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
Thats a BIG "assuming". The US has no concern or desire for "spreading democracy" whatever the fuck that means, its all about creating global hegemony where the US (US corporations to be more accurate) benefit from the exploitation of other countries peoples and resources.AnInconvenientScotsman wrote:As regards the US's "duty" to spread their quality of life - assuming that their quality of life is best for everyone - does that also entail the spreading of democracy and liberalism? If so, through what measures? (eg. military force?)
LaMont Cranston
because something has "always been that way" doesn't mean it won't ever change. It's like saying, "ahhh we've always had wars, we've always had inequality, stop fighting against it and accept it." The classic thought pattern that the people in power have always wanted the masses to accept. I'm really glad there are people that DO NOT think that way....there are inequities in the world, economically and otherwise, and it's always been that way...
Not at all, it's not like the think anything is "new", just new to them.Yes, college students get "carried away," or "excited" about political ideas that are new for them, and they think they have stumbled across ideas that are actually new.
What has failed? What has succeeded. These terms are thrown around here like they are accepted or something. What do they mean? Failed in what way, for whom, for what reasons? Succeeded for whom, through what means? Success as defined as what, in what regard?In your case, it is quite easy to point fingers at the problems of the world. Do you actually have any ideas other than ones that have already failed?
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
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sandinista
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
Thats a BIG "assuming". The US has no concern or desire for "spreading democracy" whatever the fuck that means, its all about creating global hegemony where the US (US corporations to be more accurate) benefit from the exploitation of other countries peoples and resources.AnInconvenientScotsman wrote:As regards the US's "duty" to spread their quality of life - assuming that their quality of life is best for everyone - does that also entail the spreading of democracy and liberalism? If so, through what measures? (eg. military force?)
LaMont Cranston
because something has "always been that way" doesn't mean it won't ever change. It's like saying, "ahhh we've always had wars, we've always had inequality, stop fighting against it and accept it." The classic thought pattern that the people in power have always wanted the masses to accept. I'm really glad there are people that DO NOT think that way....there are inequities in the world, economically and otherwise, and it's always been that way...
Not at all, it's not like the think anything is "new", just new to them.Yes, college students get "carried away," or "excited" about political ideas that are new for them, and they think they have stumbled across ideas that are actually new.
What has failed? What has succeeded. These terms are thrown around here like they are accepted or something. What do they mean? Failed in what way, for whom, for what reasons? Succeeded for whom, through what means? Success as defined as what, in what regard?In your case, it is quite easy to point fingers at the problems of the world. Do you actually have any ideas other than ones that have already failed?
Part 1 of 9 I believe. Anyone interested in communism and the overthrow of communism and the questions of "success" or "failures" should give this a listen. It's not an easy subject, it's not as simple as people keep seemingly trying to paint it out to be.
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
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Coito ergo sum
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
It's not anyone's concern to make sure that others live the way we live, whether the "we" is the US, Canada, the UK, Saudi Arabia or Ecuador. Not sure what's funny about that.sandinista wrote:Coito ergo sumIt's not our concern to make sure that others live the way we live
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Coito ergo sum
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
Sure you can. As long as the people of a country have the power to select their own leaders, I'm not sure what right an outside force has to impose "equality."The Mad Hatter wrote:YES IT FUCKING IS!
You can not claim to be the leader of the freeworld and make no effort to ensure the freeworld is one of equality.
Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
Fucked if I know.
I was drunk.
I was drunk.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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Coito ergo sum
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
We all know there never has been a true Communist society/country. The OP is asking anyone interested to opine about and describe in some reasonable detail what a true communist society/country would look like (if it indeed were to exist). The basic thrust is: if you could create one, what would a true communist country/society look like?Pappa wrote:Regarding the OP, I just took a look at the wikipedia article on Communism, and it does a pretty good job of explaining the point about there never having been a 'true' Communist country/society. Has anyone thought to read it?
The reason for the question is because every description of what "true" communism would be that I have ever heard is advanced with a kind of sincere wish that "if only" we could have this "ideal" of a society/country, then things would be fantastic. But, what I hear described, to me, sounds like a nightmare, and what is called an "ideal" but "utopian" vision, seems to me, even in its best light, to be a dystopian hell.
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Coito ergo sum
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Re: What would a true communist society/country look like?
No country has such a duty.AnInconvenientScotsman wrote:As regards the US's "duty" to spread their quality of life - assuming that their quality of life is best for everyone - does that also entail the spreading of democracy and liberalism? If so, through what measures? (eg. military force?)
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