Circumcision help please - Canadian style

[Cunt]

Hi guys, I know you aren't my personal army, but how about my personal think-tank?

I just heard a rumour that my local hospital performs female circumcisions. I asked a pal who is a nurse, and she said yes they do occasionally.

Because of the way she answered, I think she would rather not risk her career exposing it (fucking coward!), but someone made a suggestion to me that you all might be able to help me take advantage of.

The suggestion was that I file an 'access to information request'. Trouble is, I don't want too many people to know what it is I am after before I get it (information confirming the heinous actions, I mean)

Can you kind folk help me figure out who to 'file' this atip request with, how to do it properly (the FIRST time) and what information to ask for?

I fucking HATE the thoughts of people cutting up childrens genitals for their own entertainment. Maybe some of you have experience in stamping out this kind of horseshit.

[Trolldor]

You might disguise it as a request for statistics about procedures on children under 1 year, depending on how young they are when they get circumcised. Tell them to organise the procedures by name, rather than category.
If you don't want to be specific.
If that's how it works, then you'd get statistics on male patients and general procedures, and other surgery, but you'd get the information at least.

I can't say I know much about how it works though.

And as for who you have to send it to, apparently you'd have no choice but to send it to the hospital, and the individual within the hospital who's in charge.

[Cunt]

You might disguise it as a request for statistics about procedures on children under 1 year, depending on how young they are when they get circumcised. Tell them to organise the procedures by name, rather than category.
If you don't want to be specific.
If that's how it works, then you'd get statistics on male patients and general procedures, and other surgery, but you'd get the information at least.

I can't say I know much about how it works though.

And as for who you have to send it to, apparently you'd have no choice but to send it to the hospital, and the individual within the hospital who's in charge.

The Mad Hatter, I am as dumb as you appear to be on this. I appreciate your trying to help, but all I got from this was to aim for an age below the age I would expect the procedures to take place. (I think, based on readings, that it usually takes place a few years later - though I admit I haven't read anything about it happening in Canada)

I may indeed have to send the request to the CEO of the hospital, but it may be more appropriately sent to the Minister of Health, or to some minor functionary who I haven't imagined yet. I don't know exactly how this 'access to information' law works...

I am going to wait a bit until I have a bit more certainty about who to talk to. I do know an MLA, but don't want to call on that person unless it can do some good.

I stopped in the office of the Human Rights tribunal, but they said that it was not something they could act on, since there was no complaint to act on.

Do you know anything about 'filing' such a request?

[Trolldor]

Only vaguely under Australian law - filing a complaint here is as simple as pointing the figure and saying "sick 'em", but it generally takes a while for them to do an investigation.

If you can get one of the staff to confirm that it happens, anonymously, then you might be able to avoid the information request.

But, again, I don't know how it works.

[DRSB]

What exactly must be achieved by filing such a request? To expose the hospital for performing the ops? Is it better to have the procedure done by razor blades, pieces of broken glass or even sharp nails in domestic conditions? Because if you want to fight the female genital mutilation, this is not the way! The way is to raise awareness and education.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kNMC65p ... re=related

[Trolldor]

[Cunt]

What exactly must be achieved by filing such a request? To expose the hospital for performing the ops?

Yes. And the doctors, and the parents who approve, if possible. Then bring them all before a judge on child abuse charges.

Is it better to have the procedure done by razor blades, pieces of broken glass or even sharp nails in domestic conditions?

Are you suggesting that if I don't allow it in the hospital that I am causing it to be done elsewhere?
Because it is plainly just those promoting this vile and barbaric practice who are guilty.

Because if you want to fight the female genital mutilation, this is not the way! The way is to raise awareness and education.

I'll give you a bit of education. See if you can return the favour. I am not gainst 'female' genital mutilation. What I am against is any child genital mutilation.

Those who do it are no better than barbaric savages at best, and criminals with child-genital fetishes at worst.

This is NOT culture, it is cutting a child's' flesh for no reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kNMC65p ... re=related

I didn't see anything in that video to make me change my mind.

Was I supposed to?
If someone slashes up their babies at home with broken bottles, there are laws in place to address it.

[DRSB]

Cunt wrote: Are you suggesting that if I don't allow it in the hospital that I am causing it to be done elsewhere?

Yes, this is exactly what I'm suggesting, if it is not done in a hospital, it will be done on kitchen tables by those that want it done. There are more horrible videos on the internet, you can look them up, I just picked up one that seemed coming from a legitimate source.

[Trolldor]

http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/faq/page4-en.asp#1

That's about as close as I can get to information.

Seems like you have to be authorised to make the complaint.

Your best bet would be to try and get in to contact with the commission itself and get some specifics about lodging a complaint.

Who can file a complaint?

Canadian citizens, permanent residents or persons legally present in Canada can file a complaint under the Canadian Human Rights Act.

Usually the person who has suffered from the discrimination files the complaint but, in certain cases, a complaint may be filed, with the consent of the victim, by a third party, such as a relative or a collective bargaining agent.

[Trolldor]

Also:

What must a complaint include?

The complaint form is a legal document that sets out the allegation of discrimination. It gives, in three pages or less, the complainant’s version of events in sufficient detail for the respondent to understand what discrimination is being alleged. The Commission requires that you provide the following information:

* the complainant's name;
* the name and address of the respondent;
* the name of the victim or victims, if the complaint is filed by a third person;
* a description of the events, including dates and locations;
* the prohibited grounds of discrimination; and
* the alleged discriminatory practice.

[Cunt]

Cunt wrote: Are you suggesting that if I don't allow it in the hospital that I am causing it to be done elsewhere?

Yes, this is exactly what I'm suggesting, if it is not done in a hospital, it will be done on kitchen tables by those that want it done. There are more horrible videos on the internet, you can look them up, I just picked up one that seemed coming from a legitimate source.

Well, if you want a 'legitimate source' you could try something a bit closer than a random video. Here is a quote from the Ontario Human Rights Commission - Policy on Female Genital Mutilation: (Ontario is a neighbouring jurisdiction)

In May 1997, the federal government amended the Criminal Code and included the performance of FGM as aggravated assault under section 268(3).31 Under the Criminal Code, any person who commits an aggravated assault is guilty of an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years.32 A parent who performs FGM on their child may be charged with aggravated assault. Where the parent does not commit the act but agrees to have it performed by another party, the parent can be convicted as a party to the offence under section 21(1) of the Criminal Code.

I don't need to take a step backward and succor these child abusers. They can simply be charged with the crime they have committed and with any luck so can the doctor, nurse, anestesiologist and any other asshole who stood by and allowed a child to have pieces cut off it for some SAVAGES ENTERTAINMENT.

ahem

-

Your best bet would be to try and get in to contact with the commission itself and get some specifics about lodging a complaint.

Who can file a complaint?

Canadian citizens, permanent residents or persons legally present in Canada can file a complaint under the Canadian Human Rights Act.

Usually the person who has suffered from the discrimination files the complaint but, in certain cases, a complaint may be filed, with the consent of the victim, by a third party, such as a relative or a collective bargaining agent.

I have been to the local human rights office today. Since I have not been a victim, or enlisted by a victim, I can't make a complaint. I asked about my own cock, and the nice lady said I would have to take it up in the province in which the offence happened. (maybe I should!)

Anyway, I think I have to find out how to collect evidence. If this is happening, it is clearly criminal and one should be able to encourage enforcement.

[Rum]

Your OP says you want information rather than to submit a 'complaint'. I think you are right in this. First establish the facts and then try to do something about it, either individually or by joining a pressure group . That would be my view.

In the UK we have something called the freedom of Information Act, which means anyone can access any information which isn't security related or an invasion of privacy using the right procedure. I get these submitted to my department pretty regularly by journalists and others. The system works pretty well it seems.

A quick search with google shows that Canada and others countries have a very similar system. Here's a link which might help you get started.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/350-57-eng.asp

I am surprised we have had a response that to oppose this sort of abuse we force it to go underground. Using that argument we would still be in the dark ages with a lot of issues!

Good luck with your efforts!

[Cunt]

Your OP says you want information rather than to submit a 'complaint'. I think you are right in this. First establish the facts and then try to do something about it, either individually or by joining a pressure group . That would be my view.

In the UK we have something called the freedom of Information Act, which means anyone can access any information which isn't security related or an invasion of privacy using the right procedure. I get these submitted to my department pretty regularly by journalists and others. The system works pretty well it seems.

A quick search with google shows that Canada and others countries have a very similar system. Here's a link which might help you get started.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/350-57-eng.asp

I am surprised we have had a response that to oppose this sort of abuse we force it to go underground. Using that argument we would still be in the dark ages with a lot of issues!

Good luck with your efforts!

Thanks, Rum. I found the site you mention, but I don't know who to send it to exactly, and don't want to alert anyone to what I am seeking before I get it. I may be paranoid, but I fear a cover-up attempt. I may be overly cautious, but often when something nags at me this way, it is because of something I know which I don't yet know is related.

I guess I will read through it once or twice, but I somehow feel compelled to get it right the first time. Paranoid maybe, but it's worth indulging a bit. Not so much that I delay, though. Off to read a bit before bed.

[Rum]

Your OP says you want information rather than to submit a 'complaint'. I think you are right in this. First establish the facts and then try to do something about it, either individually or by joining a pressure group . That would be my view.

In the UK we have something called the freedom of Information Act, which means anyone can access any information which isn't security related or an invasion of privacy using the right procedure. I get these submitted to my department pretty regularly by journalists and others. The system works pretty well it seems.

A quick search with google shows that Canada and others countries have a very similar system. Here's a link which might help you get started.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/350-57-eng.asp

I am surprised we have had a response that to oppose this sort of abuse we force it to go underground. Using that argument we would still be in the dark ages with a lot of issues!

Good luck with your efforts!

Thanks, Rum. I found the site you mention, but I don't know who to send it to exactly, and don't want to alert anyone to what I am seeking before I get it. I may be paranoid, but I fear a cover-up attempt. I may be overly cautious, but often when something nags at me this way, it is because of something I know which I don't yet know is related.

I guess I will read through it once or twice, but I somehow feel compelled to get it right the first time. Paranoid maybe, but it's worth indulging a bit. Not so much that I delay, though. Off to read a bit before bed.

If you have the equivalent of the FIO act they won't have the option to 'cover up'. We don't here. It is just a paper exercise and no matter how uncomfortable the 'owner' of that information is about its release, they have no choice. Good luck.

[Cunt]

A quick search with google shows that Canada and others countries have a very similar system. Here's a link which might help you get started.

http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/tbsf-fsct/350-57-eng.asp

In case you are following along, the relevant form to submit may be http://www.hlthss.gov.nt.ca/english/new ... /atipp.htm.

Now, off to figure out which to use...

IF the Territorial one...

How to Request Access to Information held by Public Bodies:

• Identify the information that you want to access. Be as specific as possible. If you are not sure what records you want to access, contact the Access and Privacy Coordinator/Contact of the appropriate public body for assistance.
  Provide your name, address, and a telephone number where the Coordinator can contact you with any questions about the request.
  Sign the request form or letter.
  Send the completed request form or letter and the initial fee (if required) to the Coordinator of the public body most likely to have the information. The mailing address is given in this directory.

So, I guess it breaks it down...

Identify the information that you want to access. Be as specific as possible. If you are not sure what records you want to access, contact the Access and Privacy Coordinator/Contact of the appropriate public body for assistance.

I can't just say "Are you allowing people to mutilate the vaginas of baby girls in the local hospital?"
In fact, I will have to exercise unusual restraint and tact. Good thing I can farm out the written parts.

But just what information do I want? I suppose a list of procedures might have it in it, but I would think it would be hidden with a clever euphemism or something...

Next...well the rest looks pretty simple really. As long as I can find out just what it is I am asking for. I couldn't find a price-schedule either...that link seems to be broken. It would be worth a lot to me to have evidence to share about this, but I couldn't afford to ask too many of the wrong questions.

I think in the morning, I will read a bit more and see if my head (or someone elses) has managed to get any further.

Again, thanks for the support, folks (even if I did disagree with you, Deersbee)