What good is studying/researching/doing history?

[FBM]

I know some pretty good historians who wouldn't have a job if the government didn't retain them. It's all about the amount of control exercised by the patron, whoever they are. (This can range from the government, to the classic "rich patron of the arts", to the book-buying public.) Histories that aren't supported in some way don't get much attention. (The Internet may help this problem, however.) So governments can be legitimate patrons, but they have to stay legitimate, i.e., not controlling or over-controlling, the historians work.

Yeah, the gummit should retain pros, but not tell them how to interpret or dress the data supplied. The public (or other patrons) might suggest/demand topics and questions, but they shouldn't dictate the answers based on political correctness or trends. It's bad enough that the data have to be filtered through the historian's perspective, much less all the others who have less objectivity. As far as I'm concerned, if I wasn't there, it may or may not have happened like that, if at all.

[Svartalf]

History should at all costs be removed from the government domain. Independent researchers should be given complete control over what is taught in history classes.

Spoken like a true academic. I don't think it's quite that black-and-white, however. For example, the Naval History and Heritage Command and the Center for Military History do good work in a specialized area that interests me and other students of WWII.

I want to clarify for anyone involved in this thread - but mostly Svartalf - that several comments made just above that look like I wrote them were actually written by 'zilla. He and I switched identities for a little while as an aborted joke. Philosophy isn't the only pure science, for example.

Can't get a good shit-storm going around here anymore.

Grmmmlll, I could ask you to meet my Philosophy, as Philosophy is the name I give my baseball bat (ok, I don't have a bat, but one of my bokken is named Bushido, so could I teach you about Bushido?)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I know some pretty good historians who wouldn't have a job if the government didn't retain them. It's all about the amount of control exercised by the patron, whoever they are. (This can range from the government, to the classic "rich patron of the arts", to the book-buying public.) Histories that aren't supported in some way don't get much attention. (The Internet may help this problem, however.) So governments can be legitimate patrons, but they have to stay legitimate, i.e., not controlling or over-controlling, the historians work.

Yeah, the gummit should retain pros, but not tell them how to interpret or dress the data supplied. The public (or other patrons) might suggest/demand topics and questions, but they shouldn't dictate the answers based on political correctness or trends. It's bad enough that the data have to be filtered through the historian's perspective, much less all the others who have less objectivity. As far as I'm concerned, if I wasn't there, it may or may not have happened like that, if at all.

Yeah, I'd have loved to be standing next to Rochefort when "AF reports they are short of water" came in.

[FBM]

Yeah, I'd have loved to be standing next to Rochefort when "AF reports they are short of water" came in.

You have to read that with a Japanese accent for the right effect.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yeah, I'd have loved to be standing next to Rochefort when "AF reports they are short of water" came in.

You have to read that with a Japanese accent for the right effect.

"No watee, no washee, rittle rock we gonna bomb!"

[klr]

Yeah, I'd have loved to be standing next to Rochefort when "AF reports they are short of water" came in.

You have to read that with a Japanese accent for the right effect.

"No watee, no washee, rittle rock we gonna bomb!"

Me, I'd like to have been standing next to Halsey on Oct. 25th 1944, just to see his reaction when a certain message was decoded for him ... :I-love-pork:

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yeah, I'd have loved to be standing next to Rochefort when "AF reports they are short of water" came in.

You have to read that with a Japanese accent for the right effect.

"No watee, no washee, rittle rock we gonna bomb!"

Me, I'd like to have been standing next to Halsey on Oct. 25th 1944, just to see his reaction when a certain message was decoded for him ... :I-love-pork:

"Turkey trots to water"?

[klr]

Yeah, I'd have loved to be standing next to Rochefort when "AF reports they are short of water" came in.

You have to read that with a Japanese accent for the right effect.

"No watee, no washee, rittle rock we gonna bomb!"

Me, I'd like to have been standing next to Halsey on Oct. 25th 1944, just to see his reaction when a certain message was decoded for him ... :I-love-pork:

"Turkey trots to water"?

"The world wonders ..."

[FBM]

I'm Googling as fast as I can... Yep, that was a dumbass move on Halsey's part.

[klr]

I'm Googling as fast as I can... Yep, that was a dumbass move on Halsey's part.

They didn't call him "Bull" for nothing.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm Googling as fast as I can... Yep, that was a dumbass move on Halsey's part.

Miscommunication, I feel. Halsey's job was to kill the big threats. And his weapons was perfect for doing in the Decoy Force. If he had known it was a decoy he would have gone after the Northern Force, no doubt about that. However, nobody had a good grip on the overall deployment of forces, unsurprising in the largest invasion in history.

[FBM]

I'm Googling as fast as I can... Yep, that was a dumbass move on Halsey's part.

Miscommunication, I feel. Halsey's job was to kill the big threats. And his weapons was perfect for doing in the Decoy Force. If he had known it was a decoy he would have gone after the Northern Force, no doubt about that. However, nobody had a good grip on the overall deployment of forces, unsurprising in the largest invasion in history.

But he DID know it was the decoy, that's why it was such a (according to the worldwar2database.com)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'm Googling as fast as I can... Yep, that was a dumbass move on Halsey's part.

Miscommunication, I feel. Halsey's job was to kill the big threats. And his weapons was perfect for doing in the Decoy Force. If he had known it was a decoy he would have gone after the Northern Force, no doubt about that. However, nobody had a good grip on the overall deployment of forces, unsurprising in the largest invasion in history.

But he DID know it was the decoy, that's why it was such a (according to the worldwar2database.com)

Okay, I phrased that a bit badly. The force was intended to draw him off, and he knew that. But he had orders to destroy major enemy forces if the opportunity presented itself. And the Norther Force was, he thought, successively withdrawing and then opposed by other forces. He felt he was free to take out the remaining Japanese carriers.

[FBM]

Okay, I phrased that a bit badly. The force was intended to draw him off, and he knew that. But he had orders to destroy major enemy forces if the opportunity presented itself. And the Norther Force was, he thought, successively withdrawing and then opposed by other forces. He felt he was free to take out the remaining Japanese carriers.

He's the reason we lost that war!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay, I phrased that a bit badly. The force was intended to draw him off, and he knew that. But he had orders to destroy major enemy forces if the opportunity presented itself. And the Norther Force was, he thought, successively withdrawing and then opposed by other forces. He felt he was free to take out the remaining Japanese carriers.

He's the reason we lost that war!

True! If only he'd attacked Omaha like Goering wanted him too.