McDonald v. Chicago decision

[Martok]

I'm not a second amendment freak.

Yeah right.

[Coito ergo sum]

I'm not a second amendment freak.

Yeah right.

What do you think my opinion on gun control is?

[FBM]

No, the true freaks in this case are the ones who advocate unrestricted gun ownership.

That is pretty extreme in itself. Anything potentially lethal needs some controls.

[Martok]

No, the true freaks in this case are the ones who advocate unrestricted gun ownership.

That is pretty extreme in itself. Anything potentially lethal needs some controls.

Any controls on guns is viewed as an infringement of percieved constitutional rights. That's why gun regulations drive gun nuts insane with paranoria.

[Martok]

I'm not a second amendment freak.

Yeah right.

What do you think my opinion on gun control is?

You agree with this decision. No?

[FBM]

No, the true freaks in this case are the ones who advocate unrestricted gun ownership.

That is pretty extreme in itself. Anything potentially lethal needs some controls.

Any controls on guns is viewed as an infringement of percieved constitutional rights. That's why gun regulations drive gun nuts insane with paranoria.

Guess it depends on how one defines 'infringement'. I grew up in a gun culture, and I see it as perfectly reasonable to require a competence test and criminal background check. I wouldn't even object to a reasonable waiting period, though I think I'm in the minority on that last point.

[Martok]

No, the true freaks in this case are the ones who advocate unrestricted gun ownership.

That is pretty extreme in itself. Anything potentially lethal needs some controls.

Any controls on guns is viewed as an infringement of percieved constitutional rights. That's why gun regulations drive gun nuts insane with paranoria.

Guess it depends on how one defines 'infringement'. I grew up in a gun culture, and I see it as perfectly reasonable to require a competence test and criminal background check. I wouldn't even object to a reasonable waiting period, though I think I'm in the minority on that last point.

Manufactors of teddy bears are more regulated than gun manufactors. Even consumer protection drives gun owners bonkers.

[Coito ergo sum]

No, the true freaks in this case are the ones who advocate unrestricted gun ownership.

That is pretty extreme in itself. Anything potentially lethal needs some controls.

Any controls on guns is viewed as an infringement of percieved constitutional rights. That's why gun regulations drive gun nuts insane with paranoria.

In the McDonald case, we aren't faced with just some sort of "control." If you are interested in what actually was at issue in McDonald, the issue on appeal was Chicago's law to:

• Prohibit the registration of handguns, thus effecting a broad handgun ban
  Require that long guns be registered prior to their acquisition by Chicago residents, which is not always feasible
  Mandate that long guns be re-registered annually, with another payment of the fee
  Render any gun permanently non-registrable if its registration lapses

So, we're not really talking about just enacting some "controls" on guns. The city just outright banned handguns, which when it comes to self-defense is pretty much what people use. So, we're not just talking about a registration system, or limits on certain kinds or quantities of guns, or requiring safety precautions, training, or whatever. We're talking about a ban.

[FBM]

Manufactors of teddy bears are more regulated than gun manufactors. Even consumer protection drives gun owners bonkers.

Forgive me, but that sounds pretty hyperbolic to me. Do you have some data to support the 'teddy bear' thing?

[Coito ergo sum]

No, the true freaks in this case are the ones who advocate unrestricted gun ownership.

That is pretty extreme in itself. Anything potentially lethal needs some controls.

Any controls on guns is viewed as an infringement of percieved constitutional rights. That's why gun regulations drive gun nuts insane with paranoria.

Guess it depends on how one defines 'infringement'. I grew up in a gun culture, and I see it as perfectly reasonable to require a competence test and criminal background check. I wouldn't even object to a reasonable waiting period, though I think I'm in the minority on that last point.

Manufactors of teddy bears are more regulated than gun manufactors. Even consumer protection drives gun owners bonkers.

Well, now that's total and complete bollocks.

Gun manufacturers must be federally licensed under the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Gun manufacturers are also subject to very strict recordkeeping rules. They are required to keep a registry of firearms sales in an ATF-approved Bound Book, or a computerized equivalent using ATF-approved software. They must also maintain file copies of Form 4473 or eForm 4473 "Firearms Transaction Record" documents, for a period of not less than 20 years after the date of sale or disposition. When retiring or otherwise relinquishing a license, these records are sent to the BATFE's Out-of-Business Records Center. The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation. In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five business day period must be reported to ATF on Form 331.

Under 44 USC sec. 921 et seq., gun manufacturers are subject to federal regulation: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... 20_44.html

Federally, there is also the Brady Law and the Gun Free Schools law of 1994.

And each state has their own gun laws variously requiring some scheme of registration, concealed carry permitting ,and other such laws and regulations: http://www.bloomfieldpress.com/links/index.htm

With respect to teddy bears, if you or I wanted to make teddy bears and sell them, we don't need a federal license, and there are really no regulations at all on how we can make them.

[Martok]

Manufactors of teddy bears are more regulated than gun manufactors. Even consumer protection drives gun owners bonkers.

Forgive me, but that sounds pretty hyperbolic to me. Do you have some data to support the 'teddy bear' thing?

What, you're joking, right? Gun manufactors are exempt from consumer safety regualtions. If I'm not mistaken gun manufactors are also expemt from wrongful death lawsuits.

[Coito ergo sum]

Manufactors of teddy bears are more regulated than gun manufactors. Even consumer protection drives gun owners bonkers.

Forgive me, but that sounds pretty hyperbolic to me. Do you have some data to support the 'teddy bear' thing?

It's just not true.

[FBM]

What, you're joking, right? Gun manufactors are exempt from consumer safety regualtions. If I'm not mistaken gun manufactors are also expemt from wrongful death lawsuits.

I wouldn't know. What about the teddy bear thing? The Pledge of Allegiance has only 31 words. The U.S. Government regulation on the sale of cabbage contains 26,911 words. How relevant is that?

[Martok]

Well, now that's total and complete bollocks.

Gun manufacturers must be federally licensed under the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Gun manufacturers are also subject to very strict recordkeeping rules. They are required to keep a registry of firearms sales in an ATF-approved Bound Book, or a computerized equivalent using ATF-approved software. They must also maintain file copies of Form 4473 or eForm 4473 "Firearms Transaction Record" documents, for a period of not less than 20 years after the date of sale or disposition. When retiring or otherwise relinquishing a license, these records are sent to the BATFE's Out-of-Business Records Center. The ATF is allowed to inspect, as well as request a copy of the Form 4473 from the dealer during the course of a criminal investigation. In addition, the sale of two or more handguns to a person in a five business day period must be reported to ATF on Form 331.

Under 44 USC sec. 921 et seq., gun manufacturers are subject to federal regulation: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... 20_44.html

Federally, there is also the Brady Law and the Gun Free Schools law of 1994.

And each state has their own gun laws variously requiring some scheme of registration, concealed carry permitting ,and other such laws and regulations: http://www.bloomfieldpress.com/links/index.htm

With respect to teddy bears, if you or I wanted to make teddy bears and sell them, we don't need a federal license, and there are really no regulations at all on how we can make them.

No, gun manufactors are not regulated for safety. Autos are. So are kids toys. But gun manufactors are exempt. Thus, teddy bears are more regulated than guns.

[FBM]

So you think a gun manufacturer could turn out a product that explodes in the face of whoever fires it and not be held accountable? You can't even produce lettuce that gives you the shits without being subject to litigation.