More Evidences for God

[Gawdzilla Sama]

More easily fixed, I think.

[mandy]

I did not say that it isn't real.

I said that beauty does not exist itself.

you got me all confused mate. what you on about now. how come beauty is real but it dont exists. that just dont make sense to me. you are not on crack are ya?

Beauty is an attribute.

Beauty exists in the same way that "wetness" exists, as a property of something else

if tiger gets wet, im sure he enjoys that disgusting wetness. and that proves two things. one, that something got to exists that makes tiger wet; and two, even if you think there is no such thing as wetness, there is duh.

P1: Allah is THE (as in the only) creator of everything.
P2: The existence of evil is evidence that the "creator" is malevolent.

C: Allah, being the creator, is malevolent.

no no you got it all wrong mate. iblis creates choas and evil while Allah creates order and good. you got it now?
iblis aint no god. he is a dick. Allah allows him to live coz he begged for his life. I read the Quran where it says he asked Allah not to arrest him till day of judgement when the whole universe will end. Allah says ok you got a little time to mess around. that is why iblis makes bad things and does all sort of evil. he is even making you guys believe in absurd logic which leads you away from Allah. get it now? you first line P1 is all wrong. Allah is the God. iblis is not god. he is a created chap like me and you. we can create things, so can iblis. that dont prove he we are gods.

Yes, I did use my brains to see logic.

The logical conclusion, based on what you have said, is that Allah is malevolent.

you got it wrong mate. read what i said. i proved it that you messed up.

Then, for the record, you have admitted that your second proof for god is not, in fact, a proof for the existence of god.

no i have not. i said size dont matter, but matter matters. do you get it now?
plus, that aint my second proof. its first. duh. Cheryl is the second stunning proof of Allah.

No, I was making the point that, so far, your 'evidences' have had no logical connection with the existence of allah. I'm not saying a teacup is intelligent, because you've yet to show evidence of any 'intelligence'.

you aint paying attention when looking at beauties in devon are ya mate. doesnt looking at the face of a pretty woman give you any clues? or are you just thinking about getting her into bed and thats it. the lady aint just for shaggin you know. if you think about it, cheryl's good looks were designed by Allah. who else did her? not you. not me. then who. the answer is Allah. he made her pretty. that is your evidence unless you got a better man for the job.

And how come you're ignoring my pleas to hear the rest of the 'evidences' as soon as possible?

you cant say that. i did answer ya mate. didnt you even read it?

What if the fifth 'evidence' is the one that finally convinces us all? How can you justify holding that back from us?

look mate, if you cant get to Allah through cheryl, then its not very likely you gonna get to him through a cow, are ya.

[Tigger]

iblis aint no god. he is a dick. Allah allows him to live coz he begged for his life

So your fucking marvellous god allows some evil cunt of a devil to live, but his followers, the murdering fuckers who kidnap journalists and scientists ([digress]not that you fucking listen to science anyway; I pointed out to you that the science you quoted to me in favour of circumcision actually agrees with me but you ignored it again, surprise surprise - read it FFS[/digression]), wouldn't listen to them as they undoubtedly begged for mercy. Fuckwads.

Are you a troll, Ray?

[PsychoSerenity]

What if the fifth 'evidence' is the one that finally convinces us all? How can you justify holding that back from us?

look mate, if you cant get to Allah through cheryl, then its not very likely you gonna get to him through a cow, are ya.

Do you mean to say that you have already presented your very best and most convincing evidence and arguments? Because if that's the case, since you've convinced nobody, you might as well give up trying.

But I don't suppose you will.

[Tigger]

UK mains is indeed 230 VAC, and we'd need to make sure there was no RCD in the circuit to trip out the supply before it had achieved the desired effect. As Mandy is probably on benefits and scrounging from the state - prove me wrong - it can only be hoped that his landlord is shit, and the electrical supply is dodgy.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[quote="ray";p="188681"][quote="Oldskeptic";p="140448"]

Yes, of course. God is not completely hidden. That would be very unfair. Anyone can see Him if they really loved to.

Its like a tall building, and I am standing on the top roof. I can only describe the stars to you. You chose to remain in the basement cellar. You simply need to get to the top floor to see the sky for yourself. How you get up there is entirely up to you.

I’m going to take a stab at breaking down Ray’s “argument” into something more like and actual argument.

Let‘s see how it turns out.

It would be unfair of God to completely hide itself
God is fair so it does not completely hide itself from those that truly want to see it.
Anyone that truly wants to see God can.
If you cannot see God then you don’t truly want to.

Therefore God exists.


Did Ray come up with this all on his own?

Does anyone know which god Ray is talking about? [/quote]

Ray is talking about the Supreme Being who is responsible for the existence of the Universe.

The Cellar Argument formed by me, Ray, and posted around the internet in March 2010.

Cellar Argument is the most practical and empirical argument of the 21st century.

If you take your last line [therefore God exists] out, then your summary of the argument is quite accurate.

Even after that, ADParker still pretends that I have not specified where to go to look for evidence.

[quote="ADParker";p="140401"]

you simply assert that we have to find the evidence/truth ourselves. But that:
1. It is our Fault for choosing not to look.
2. That we have to look for this unspecified evidence/truth, that you have no interest in helping us see this so-called Truth[sup]TM[/sup] that you assert exists.[/quote]

ADParker even claimed that I had said that only I, and not the atheists, are incapabale of reaching the roof and observing the evidence.

How can a person with good reasoning skills like ADParker make so wrong assumptions. I just dont know.

I suggest he reads the Cellar Argument again, or at least the summary of it provided by Oldskeptic.

However, there was comment he made that needs answering:

it is absolutely insane to claim that it is an argument FOR God, as it makes no arguments for that at all.
It simply accusing anyone who doesn't believe as you do, of deliberately failing to see the truths that you claim to.

If you look at the Cellar Argument more closely, you will see that it is actually a posteriori proof for the Supreme Being.[/quote]

[charlou]

Ray, you say? In the month of May?

Ray'n Ray'n go Away, Cum again another Day.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

hello,

Salam to everyone.

Since this is a Islam section of the forum, you may ask me any question
relating to my ideology which is Islam. I have my own beliefs and you have yours.

I am a Muslim, and a true believer in Allah; and hence, an authorised speaker on His behalf.

If my answer is not to your liking, or, if I don't give a reply, then please dont be offended.

It means either you have asked an insulting question, or, I have already answered it.

I am here only to share views and open up myself to those who sincerly want to know the facts directly from a true believer of God.

I am not here to convert you to Islam. I couldn't care less where you end up after death.

Hell or Paradise are there. If you don't believe in their existence, then thats up to you.

If you reject God, then it is not my life and my eternity that is at stake.

Cheers.

[MrFungus420]

I did not say that it isn't real.

I said that beauty does not exist itself.

you got me all confused mate. what you on about now. how come beauty is real but it dont exists. that just dont make sense to me. you are not on crack are ya?

Point to "beauty".

You can't do it. You can point to something that has attributes that you find to be beautiful, but there is no such thing as "beauty" that exists in and of itself.

Beauty is an attribute.

Beauty exists in the same way that "wetness" exists, as a property of something else

if tiger gets wet, im sure he enjoys that disgusting wetness. and that proves two things. one, that something got to exists that makes tiger wet; and two, even if you think there is no such thing as wetness, there is duh.

No, water exists. Wetness is a property that things can have.

Wetness itself does not exist.

P1: Allah is THE (as in the only) creator of everything.
P2: The existence of evil is evidence that the "creator" is malevolent.

C: Allah, being the creator, is malevolent.

no no you got it all wrong mate. iblis creates choas and evil while Allah creates order and good. you got it now?

Then you are changing your story.

You earlier have claimed that Allah is the creator.

Now you are saying that Iblis is a co-creator.

iblis aint no god.

Make up your mind.

Is Allah the creator, or is there more than one being with the power of creation?

he is a dick.

So he is very much like Allah.

Allah allows him to live coz he begged for his life. I read the Quran where it says he asked Allah not to arrest him till day of judgement when the whole universe will end. Allah says ok you got a little time to mess around. that is why iblis makes bad things and does all sort of evil. he is even making you guys believe in absurd logic which leads you away from Allah. get it now? you first line P1 is all wrong.

So Allah is NOT the creator. (that was the first premise, that he is, and you just said that it was all wrong)

Allah is the God. iblis is not god. he is a created chap like me and you. we can create things,

No we can't. No human, in the entirety of history has created (in the sense of a god creating) anything. The only thing that humans can do is to re-arrange that which already exists.

so can iblis. that dont prove he we are gods.

No. You have said that Iblis creates chaos and evil. That is no different than creating goodness and order.

They are equivalent.

Yes, I did use my brains to see logic.

The logical conclusion, based on what you have said, is that Allah is malevolent.

you got it wrong mate. read what i said. i proved it that you messed up.

How did you "prove" anything?

You equivocated human creation (the re-arrangement of that which already exists) with divine creation (the creation of something that did not, in any form (even matter or energy), exist).

You tried to change you story and claim that Allah did not create everything. In so doing, you have raised Iblis to godhood almost equivalent to Allah. In the cases of chaos and evil, you have said that Iblis is superior to Allah, that Iblis has more power that Allah over evil and chaos since Iblis created them .

[Bella Fortuna]

Ray, you say? In the month of May?

Ray'n Ray'n go Away, Cum again another Day.

Ray'n of terror.

[Feck]

Ray-ban ?

[Bella Fortuna]

[Tigger]

Ray-ban ?

See, they can do it.

[Thor]

I'm convinced.

[Deep Sea Isopod]

where else did matter come from if not created by God

It's always been there.

1. existence of beauty is evidence that there has to be a designer artist.

Go into an art gallery. You will find beauty by many artists. By your logic there would be many gods.

2. existence of a big universe is evidence that there has to be a creator.

There are over 100 million stars in our galaxy. Some will have planets orbiting them. There are millions and millions of galaxies. Our galaxy is 100,000 light years across. The visible universe is 15 billion light years across.
Look at this.....

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Each of those bright spots are galaxies, representong 100 of millions of solar systems.

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

How small and insignificant earth is, in the grand scheme of things? Do you really think your god gives a rats arse about this miniscule speck of dust?

These two pictures are summaries of the two evidences:

It's evidence of Evolution by natural selection.

matter and pretty matter points to existence of a powerful and beautiful God.

1. existence of beauty is evidence that there has to be a designer artist.

Who created god?