Sun Tzu, The Art of War and the War on Terrorism

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There are a buttload of Muslims who can assimilate seamlessly into Western societies, but hardly any Western people who can enter into a Muslim country without attracting a shitload of attention. In general, Western people are far too arrogant and lazy to do the hard work of learning a non-Western language (though I'm sure a larger percentage of Ratzians are polyglots) and plunging deeply into a non-Western worldview. This is our Achilles' heel. One of them, anyway. We've got several, seems.

"Simpler is easier than more complex." The convoluted Muslim culture isn't easy to pick up and fake. With our worship of "diversity" the Muslims simply have to say "that's my heritage, you must love it!" and it's hands-off in the West.

[Tigger]

The terrorist targets civilians the military doesn't deliberately do that - usually. The military's hands seem tied.

[Trolldor]

What we're seeing is the result of the history of Warfare for different cultures. It's the World Wars vs 'Tunnel Rats'.

"Desert Rats".

Two different styles of war fighting. Each effective in it's own arena, but less so outside that arena. We're using Abrams as mobile pillboxes and SP artillery. But you have to get out of the damn things to search a house. Then it dumbs down to man v. man. If we can get smarter on the hot man-on-man action we might still win this.

No, Tunnel Rats. Any chance to reference a Uwe Boll film.

(Actually, it was a reference to something else, legend/myth about the Rats of Tobruk, also called Tunnel Rats etc. Digging holes in the sand to hide from enemy fire despite being right in front of them. I don't much trust Australian War Stories though, so much propaganda there.)

"Simpler is easier than more complex." The convoluted Muslim culture isn't easy to pick up and fake.

Especially depending on which Muslim culture you choose to adopt.

the military doesn't deliberately do that - usually. The military's hands seem tied.

Targeting civilians is one of the tactics loved by any invading force.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No, Tunnel Rats. Any chance to reference a Uwe Boll film.

Okay, then. No fuckin' clue there.

[Ian]

I like to step back and look at the Grand Scheme of Things. By this I mean macroeconomics, demographic trends, the shifts in the character of international relations, etc.. In the Grand Scheme, terrorism is little more than a nuisance.

My job is threat analysis. Attacks like 9/11 are what's referred to as "low probability, high impact" events. Of course it's an issue that has to be dealt with, but long-range priorities must be kept in line. There are perfectly good reasons why the Navy hasn't sold off half its aircraft carriers to help win the War on Terror, or why Israel maintains such high-quality tanks and fighter aircraft, despite their limited use against terrorism.

Anyway, Sun Tzu was a genius. His last chapter, on the use of spies, is extraordinary. Sun Tzu sees intelligence as vital in war, a game-changing asset, as do I. (Von Clausewitz apparently thought little of intelligence in war; he saw intelligence as being of questionable and generally exagerrated value, preferring to invest in "brute strength" strategy.) The US Intelligence Community has been reorienting itself towards a multipolar world ever since the end of the Cold War, with mixed results. It will continue, but I do consider it the front lines of the War on Terrorism. Military forces are important, but they are not central. Intelligence is central.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I like to step back and look at the Grand Scheme of Things. By this I mean macroeconomics, demographic trends, the shifts in the character of international relations, etc.. In the Grand Scheme, terrorism is little more than a nuisance.

My job is threat analysis. Attacks like 9/11 are what's referred to as "low probability, high impact" events. Of course it's an issue that has to be dealt with, but long-range priorities must be kept in line. There are perfectly good reasons why the Navy hasn't sold off half its aircraft carriers to help win the War on Terror, or why Israel maintains such high-quality tanks and fighter aircraft, despite their limited use against terrorism.

Anyway, Sun Tzu was a genius. His last chapter, on the use of spies, is extraordinary. Sun Tzu sees intelligence as vital in war, a game-changing asset, as do I. (Von Clausewitz apparently thought little of intelligence in war; he saw intelligence as being of questionable and generally exagerrated value, preferring to invest in "brute strength" strategy.) The US Intelligence Community has been reorienting itself towards a multipolar world ever since the end of the Cold War, with mixed results. It will continue, but I do consider it the front lines of the War on Terrorism. Military forces are important, but they are not central. Intelligence is central.

So when you going to win this damn thing for us?

[Trolldor]

I remember reading something a while ago, the bigger the weapons the more important intelligence and psychological warfare becomes.

[Ian]

So when you going to win this damn thing for us?

Win? We're in the business of winning? I thought we we just here to futz around and keep our budgets at a constant level.

Sorry to tell you, but my current job in the Inteligence Community has virtually nothing to do with terrorism. And in all my time I've never used the words "Iraq" or "Afghanistan" in the context of a professional conversation. I deal with other things.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So when you going to win this damn thing for us?

Win? We're in the business of winning? I thought we we just here to futz around and keep our budgets at a constant level.

Sorry to tell you, but my current job in the Inteligence Community has virtually nothing to do with terrorism. And in all my time I've never used the words "Iraq" or "Afghanistan" in the context of a professional conversation. I deal with other things.

I'd win a bet if I said the name of the country/area you're looking at, but then you'd have to kill me.

[FBM]

...Military forces are important, but they are not central. Intelligence is central.

Precisely. And it seems that the West has been very slow to recognize this wrt the Muslim threat. Am I wrong in thinking I detect a bit of cultural arrogance? Thinking that "illiterate sand-n***ers" are incapable of mounting a serious threat to a superpower? If so, this, combined with the aforementioned marriage between the military industry and politicians, must be corrected if the problem is to be solved.

Then there's the question of whether or not the military industry and politicians actually want the problem to be solved. I'm thinking of the situation on the Korean peninsula as an example. The West has more to gain from prolonging the tenion than from resolving it, seems. If North and South reunite, we may lose an important strategic foothold in NEast Asia, right next to China. Lately I've been wondering if having enemies isn't a necessary component of contemporary society. I'm not saying it's true, but if it is, I can hardly wait for the fall of the contemporary model of 'civilization'.

Edit: I'm going to log off for a bit to play COD MW2 for a bit.

[Trolldor]

I'd win a bet if I said the name of the country/area you're looking at, but then you'd have to kill me.

What's so threatening about Ireland?

Thinking that "illiterate sand-n***ers"

The problem with those illiterate sand-niggers is that the most destructive weapon they've used so far have been planes going on suicide runs. From what I understand, apart from those that absconded with Coalition-supplied weaponry (lol, not such a loyal police force after all) they've been using soviet-era weaponry. It'll still kill ya, but the newer stuff can do it from further away. They're not exactly much of a threat. Iran's purported nuclear program is a looming threat to J. Doe, but not a confirmed one, and China is the bogeyman.

[Ian]

I'd win a bet if I said the name of the country/area you're looking at, but then you'd have to kill me.

I'm currently specializing in two countries, neither of which have much to do with each other. But feel free to guess.

And a bet with who??

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I'd win a bet if I said the name of the country/area you're looking at, but then you'd have to kill me.

I'm currently specializing in two countries, neither of which have much to do with each other. But feel free to guess.

That would be cheating. And a violation of some damn thing, I'm bettin'.

And a bet with who??

Okay, now I'd have to kill you.

[Ian]

It's Paraguay and Uzbekistan.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's Paraguay and Uzbekistan.

Okay, now we have to kill us.