Women making less than men for the same work...

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Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:43 pm

What are the facts?

Do women make less than men for the same hour of work in the same job at the same employer (with the same education, experience, seniority, etc.)? Is there a pay gap?

One writer has said, interestingly, "when a Male and a female civil engineer both stay with their respective companies for ten years, travel and relocate equally and take the same career risks, the woman ends up making more." Further more, "among workers who have never been married and never had children, women earn 117% of what Men do. (This factors in education, hours worked and age.)" http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/12/women- ... gmore.html

http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/12/women- ... gmore.html
But one question haunted me through the years: If an employer has to pay a man one dollar for the same work a woman would do for 59 cents, why would anyone hire a man? If women do produce more for less, I thought, women who own their own businesses should earn more than male business owners. So I checked. I found that women entrepreneurs earn 50% less than their male counterparts.

It's not that women are less effective or productive--they just have different priorities. A 2001 survey of business owners with M.B.A.s conducted by the Rochester Institute of Technology found that money was the primary motivator for only 29% of women, versus 76% of men. Women prioritized flexibility, fulfillment, autonomy and safety.

After more than a decade of research for my book, Why Men Earn More, I discovered that men and women make 25 work-life choices that actually create a wage gap. Men make decisions that result in their making more money. On the other hand, women make decisions that earn them better lives (e.g., more family and friend time).

But what happens when women make the same lucrative decisions typically made by men? The good news--for women, at least: Women actually earn more. For example, when a male and a female civil engineer both stay with their respective companies for ten years, travel and relocate equally and take the same career risks, the woman ends up making more. And among workers who have never been married and never had children, women earn 117% of what men do. (This factors in education, hours worked and age.)

Without husbands, women have to focus on earning more. They work longer hours, they're willing to relocate and they're more likely to choose higher-paying fields like technology. Without children, men have more liberty to earn less--that is, they are free to pursue more fulfilling and less lucrative careers, like writing or art or teaching social studies.

What about the headlines saying that even when their jobs are the same, men get paid more than women? Isn't that especially true in corporate America? Yes. But according to Catalyst, a nonprofit that advocates for gender equality in the business world, men are nine times more likely to be responsible for bottom-line sales, marketing and finances, not human resources or public relations.

But wait. Don't companies favor men for these greater responsibilities to begin with? Sometimes. Overall, though, track records being equal, whoever is more willing to relocate, travel and work 80-hour weeks receives greater responsibilities. The male corporate model is built on a man's greater willingness to be a slave of sorts--especially once he has to provide for children.

Is there discrimination against women? Yes. There's no denying that the old boys' network is alive and well. But there's also discrimination against men. For example, try getting hired as a male dental hygienist, nursery school teacher or cocktail waiter, or try selling clothing at Wal-Mart Stores (nyse: WMT - news - people ). (Even the employees in the men's wear department are 93% women.)

When we focus our binoculars only on discrimination, we miss opportunities available to women, such as the 80 fields (e.g., financial analysis, radiation therapy, statistics and most engineering fields) in which women now earn more than men.

I want my daughters to know that working 44 versus 34 hours per week leads to more than twice the pay. As I took my binoculars off of discrimination against my wife and daughters, I discovered new opportunities in store for them.

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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Trolldor » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:49 pm

Yes, there is. Census tells alls.
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Feck » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:51 pm

Birmingham has about £500 million says we are a LONG way off equal pay !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 647072.stm
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Pappa » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:59 pm

Feck wrote:Birmingham has about £500 million says we are a LONG way off equal pay !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 647072.stm
I saw that on the news. Binmen make £32,000 a year on average. I'm in the wrong job!
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:00 pm

born-again-atheist wrote:Yes, there is. Census tells alls.
Actually, it does not. There is insufficient information in the census data.

The census does not control for factors like education and experience, occupation, industry and whether they belong to a union, and the fact that women tend to cluster in lower-paying fields (teaching, psychology, secretarial). It does not factor in that the most-educated swath of women, for example, gravitates toward the teaching and nursing fields. Men with comparable education become business executives, scientists, doctors and lawyers — jobs that pay significantly more. And, that women are far more likely to take time off to start a family or work part-time while rearing one.

For example,over a period of 15 years, according to a 2004 study by the Institute for Women's Policy Research (IWPR), a full 52% of women in the prime earning age range of 26 to 59 go through at least one full calendar year earning nothing at all, compared with just 16% of men. So, while those women may come back to work in a job that is performed by men, it does not seem reasonable for those returning workers to get the same money as those who did not take time off. If a worker takes a year or so off after working for 5 years with an employer, and 2 workers, one male and one female, work those five years, and continue to work through the year or so off, is it "equal" to pay the returning worker who took a year or so off the same as the workers who did not take that time off?

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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Feck » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:15 pm

Pappa wrote:
Feck wrote:Birmingham has about £500 million says we are a LONG way off equal pay !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 647072.stm
I saw that on the news. Binmen make £32,000 a year on average. I'm in the wrong job!

No BinMEN get up to 20'000 PA on top in Bonus !!!!!
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:21 pm

Feck wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Feck wrote:Birmingham has about £500 million says we are a LONG way off equal pay !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 647072.stm
I saw that on the news. Binmen make £32,000 a year on average. I'm in the wrong job!

No BinMEN get up to 20'000 PA on top in Bonus !!!!!
What's a "binman?" And, shouldn't it be "binperson?" :ask:

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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Feck » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:31 pm

Yes that is kind of the point women were not employed in some areas of work and the bonus payouts for those areas were HUGE .
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by colubridae » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:21 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Feck wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Feck wrote:Birmingham has about £500 million says we are a LONG way off equal pay !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 647072.stm
I saw that on the news. Binmen make £32,000 a year on average. I'm in the wrong job!

No BinMEN get up to 20'000 PA on top in Bonus !!!!!
What's a "binman?" And, shouldn't it be "binperson?" :ask:
There are two types of binperson - 0 and 1
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by FBM » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:27 pm

Since when did we start paying women to work, anyway? :what:

@colubridae: There are 11 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Pappa » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:28 pm

colubridae wrote:There are two types of binperson - 0 and 1
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by FBM » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:33 pm

Pappa wrote:
colubridae wrote:There are two types of binperson - 0 and 1
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
*cough*
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by colubridae » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:33 pm

Pappa wrote:
colubridae wrote:There are two types of binperson - 0 and 1
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
There were once two racehorses called wun-wun and tu-tu

I read in the news

'Wun-wun won a race today tu-tu won one too'

:funny: :funny: :funny:

:wacky: <== colubridae
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by Pappa » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:38 pm

colubridae wrote:There were once two racehorses called wun-wun and tu-tu

I read in the news

'Wun-wun won a race today tu-tu won one too'

:funny: :funny: :funny:

:wacky: <== colubridae
You're basic knowledge of Welsh might decipher a bit of this....

Mae dada da 'da dad. (Phon. "My dada da da dad") => My dad has got good cows.
Mae da da 'da dad. (Phon. "My da da da dad") => My dad has got good sweets.
Mae dy dei di du yn dda. (Phon. "My dur day dee dee un tha") => You're black tie is good.
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Re: Women making less than men for the same work...

Post by maiforpeace » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:38 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote: The census does not control for factors like education and experience, occupation, industry and whether they belong to a union, and the fact that women tend to cluster in lower-paying fields (teaching, psychology, secretarial). It does not factor in that the most-educated swath of women, for example, gravitates toward the teaching and nursing fields. Men with comparable education become business executives, scientists, doctors and lawyers — jobs that pay significantly more. And, that women are far more likely to take time off to start a family or work part-time while rearing one.
Men get paid more in those jobs that have been typically female dominated, like teaching and nursing. Why is that?
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Feck wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Feck wrote:Birmingham has about £500 million says we are a LONG way off equal pay !
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west ... 647072.stm
I saw that on the news. Binmen make £32,000 a year on average. I'm in the wrong job!

No BinMEN get up to 20'000 PA on top in Bonus !!!!!
What's a "binman?" And, shouldn't it be "binperson?" :ask:
I think that's a garbage collector. Looks like the UK needs to adopt our non-sexist term. 8-)
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