Thought experiment: How far back would you go?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Here's the deal. Through nefarious means, you have acquired a time machine. The trouble is, it has a very peculiar means of operation: -

• You can only use it once and the machine is destroyed in the process.
• You can only travel backwards in time and only within your own lifetime.
• You can take nothing with you.
• You will arrive at your destination in your own body exactly as it was at that point but with your present memories intact alongside your memories as they were then.
• Once you travel backwards in time, the current timeline will cease to exist except in your memories.
• The simple fact of you travelling back in time affects the universe in subtle ways. While this has no effect on anything major, it does affect delicate, random events. For example: you cannot rely on the lottery results being the same this time around, of sporting events playing out exactly the same way, of stocks and shares rising and falling in the same manner as before, or of world events that rely upon complex, chaotic processes occurring at exactly the same time or in exactly the same way.
• This extra level of randomness is exacerbated as time goes by. That is, should you go back a short distance, by the time you catch up with the present, things will be fairly similar, but if you travel back a few decades, world events might end up very different indeed - assassins' bullets may miss, terrorist plots may go undiscovered, the football league tables may be unrecognisable, etc.
• Upon catching up with the time at which you discovered the machine, it will not exist. This really is a one-shot deal!

So. How far back would you go? Remember that if you go back beyond the birth of a child (not necessarily your own), or before you met a special friend, there is a chance that those events might not happen at all. Would you use the machine at all? Is there a point in time where giving up everything you have had since would be worth it, just for another chance?

Think about it.


Edit: Extra condition added (in bold) in response to several posts.

[tattuchu]

I don't need to think about it. I know precisely the moment I'd go back to

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I don't need to think about it. I know precisely the moment I'd go back to

Care to expand? A missed opportunity? Or a chance to correct a mistake?

[tattuchu]

I don't need to think about it. I know precisely the moment I'd go back to

Care to expand? A missed opportunity? Or a chance to correct a mistake?

A missed opportunity. Someone I loved very much, but didn't realize how much until it was too late. Took things for granted

[Lion IRC]

Hi Xamonas Chegwé,
It's an interesting notion but I get bogged down with "present memories intact" versus "if you go back beyond the birth of a child.....those events might not happen at all".
Your suggestion about tandem/parallel "memories" from two alternative "times" goes right to the very heart of omniscience and omnipresence. A time traveller might be willing to allow something (regarded as "bad" by non-time travellers) to proceed in the certain knowledge that a happy future (best of all possible worlds) will result from that very event. Moreover, an even worse outcome would follow if someone without the time travellers insight were allowed to intervene.
Lion (IRC)

[PsychoSerenity]

I'd go back and redo my teens. 14 or 15 years old maybe, which is less than a decade for me. I've learned so much in the last couple of years, had so much general life experience that would have been so useful back then. There's nothing really specific I'd change but I'd be able to take advantage of so many more opportunities and have more confidence.

There might be problems with me knowing things about friends before we've got to know each other, which might seem really creepy if I wasn't careful.

I also think there are several friends that I might not end up getting to know, that I would really miss. (Presumably they don't miss me because in the alternate universe I've time-travelled from, there's another me carrying on as normal? ) But there are friends I really miss now, due to me cocking up, which I could probably fix. Also it'd be much easier for me to make friends in the first place because I'm much more sociable now.

There's not really much for me to lose, and so much opportunity - yeah I'd go for it.

[Ian]

I've thought about this very scenario quite a bit. For me, it's tempting to want to go back to the beginning of high school (around age 14). From there, it's a clear road for achieving things I had always wanted to achieve but lacked the maturity, willpower or forethought at the time: a better group of friends, more success with women, getting in to a great college, greater career possibilities, greater opportunities as a single twenty-something, etc.

But I wouldn't for three reasons. The first, obvious reason is that I'm happy enough with how my life has turned out. Through my own willpower, I've managed to secure a decent career, a respectable-enough education, a wife who's at least nice to me and is a good mother, and three perfect kids. Right now, nothing's broke. And if it ain't broke, I say don't fix it.

The second reason is the unknown. Maybe while I was in the middle of achieving my better-than-current life I'd be in the wrong place at the wrong time at some point and get hit by a drunk driver. Or wind up with HIV. Or otherwise end up down a bad path I hadn't forseeen.

The last reason is all the work it took for me to get to where I am. High school, college, military training and qualifications, my graduate degree, etc. I just don't want to go through all that again!

[PsychoSerenity]

But I wouldn't for three reasons. The first, obvious reason is that I'm happy enough with how my life has turned out. Through my own willpower, I've managed to secure a decent career, a respectable-enough education, a wife who's at least nice to me and is a good mother, and three perfect kids. Right now, nothing's broke. And if it ain't broke, I say don't fix it.

Yeah this is where you have a good reason not to go back, and I don't. I'm free to time travel with out these worries!

The second reason is the unknown. Maybe while I was in the middle of achieving my better-than-current life I'd be in the wrong place at the wrong time at some point and get hit by a drunk driver. Or wind up with HIV. Or otherwise end up down a bad path I hadn't forseeen.

But you have the same chance of disaster carrying on in your current life. Unless you're judging your life by the age you eventually die at this don't make much sense to me.

The last reason is all the work it took for me to get to where I am. High school, college, military training and qualifications, my graduate degree, etc. I just don't want to go through all that again!

Ahh but think how much easier it'll be when you've already done it once. More time for partying!

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Hi Xamonas Chegwé,
It's an interesting notion but I get bogged down with "present memories intact" versus "if you go back beyond the birth of a child.....those events might not happen at all".

They would have happened in your 'original' life and you would remember them - but they would not necessarily repeat themselves in this new life. The sex that made the baby might not result in conception this time around - or a different sperm might succeed, resulting in a completely different child - or there might be a miscarriage, etc. Could you go back, knowing that your children, or those of your friends and relatives, might never be born? It is time travel with consequences. What point in your life would make the risk of changing everything afterwards worthwhile?

Your suggestion about tandem/parallel "memories" from two alternative "times" goes right to the very heart of omniscience and omnipresence. A time traveller might be willing to allow something (regarded as "bad" by non-time travellers) to proceed in the certain knowledge that a happy future (best of all possible worlds) will result from that very event. Moreover, an even worse outcome would follow if someone without the time travellers insight were allowed to intervene.
Lion (IRC)

But how would the time traveller know the outcome of their intervention? Or of their non-intervention? Again, that is the dilemma.

Now, is there anything you would like a second chance at, or to correct, that much?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I'd go back and redo my teens. 14 or 15 years old maybe, which is less than a decade for me. I've learned so much in the last couple of years, had so much general life experience that would have been so useful back then. There's nothing really specific I'd change but I'd be able to take advantage of so many more opportunities and have more confidence.

There might be problems with me knowing things about friends before we've got to know each other, which might seem really creepy if I wasn't careful.

I also think there are several friends that I might not end up getting to know, that I would really miss. (Presumably they don't miss me because in the alternate universe I've time-travelled from, there's another me carrying on as normal? ) But there are friends I really miss now, due to me cocking up, which I could probably fix. Also it'd be much easier for me to make friends in the first place because I'm much more sociable now.

There's not really much for me to lose, and so much opportunity - yeah I'd go for it.

So there's nothing that has happened since then that you would miss enough to stop you? Oh, and there is no alternate timeline - it ends with you using the machine - it's a bit of a cop-out otherwise.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I've thought about this very scenario quite a bit. For me, it's tempting to want to go back to the beginning of high school (around age 14). From there, it's a clear road for achieving things I had always wanted to achieve but lacked the maturity, willpower or forethought at the time: a better group of friends, more success with women, getting in to a great college, greater career possibilities, greater opportunities as a single twenty-something, etc.

But I wouldn't for three reasons. The first, obvious reason is that I'm happy enough with how my life has turned out. Through my own willpower, I've managed to secure a decent career, a respectable-enough education, a wife who's at least nice to me and is a good mother, and three perfect kids. Right now, nothing's broke. And if it ain't broke, I say don't fix it.

The second reason is the unknown. Maybe while I was in the middle of achieving my better-than-current life I'd be in the wrong place at the wrong time at some point and get hit by a drunk driver. Or wind up with HIV. Or otherwise end up down a bad path I hadn't forseeen.

The last reason is all the work it took for me to get to where I am. High school, college, military training and qualifications, my graduate degree, etc. I just don't want to go through all that again!

So maybe just back a little way - a few years perhaps, or months? Something you did yesterday that you'd like to change? :twisted:

[Ian]

The second reason is the unknown. Maybe while I was in the middle of achieving my better-than-current life I'd be in the wrong place at the wrong time at some point and get hit by a drunk driver. Or wind up with HIV. Or otherwise end up down a bad path I hadn't forseeen.

But you have the same chance of disaster carrying on in your current life. Unless you're judging your life by the age you eventually die at this don't make much sense to me.

It's all about the sense of achievement.

I'm 37, and have more or less achieved all the things I ever really wanted to achieve. Maybe I could've done more by now, but then again maybe something dreadful could've happened in the process. If anything happens from here, that's OK - I've already done what I wanted to do. I'd have a good legacy if I get hit by a bus tomorrow. But if I went back in time to set up a positively great legacy for myself, how great is it if I get hit by a bus while I'm still in my early 20s?

[Trolldor]

Birth.

Nothing in my life has been so profound as to having me want to keep it...

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Birth.

Nothing in my life has been so profound as to having me want to keep it...

Might be interesting to see your mother's face when you are born walking, talking and argumentative as fuck!

[PsychoSerenity]

So there's nothing that has happened since then that you would miss enough to stop you?

Not really other than a few friends which I'd hopefully be able to get to know again anyway.

Oh, and there is no alternate timeline - it ends with you using the machine - it's a bit of a cop-out otherwise.

Yeah that's a bit of a dilemma because it means I'm responsible for changing everyone else's lives as well. Not sure if I would do it in this case. There are a few people that I would have to discuss it with first at least - and if I start going around telling people I've got a time machine, and asking them if they think it would be OK for me to use it - and undo all their lives, who knows what would happen?