Do you hate Islam ?

[Bella Fortuna]

My god always agrees with me.

Yes, I do.

[Coito ergo sum]

The money comes, in large part, from individual donors around the world, particularly in the west. They donate to Muslim front organizations, which pretend to be charitable or otherwise benign, and then funnel money back to terrorist groups.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't mean the money that funds terrorist directly, but the money that pays for the printing and distribution of books and pamphlets containing extremist propaganda. These and the sheikhs who are funded and supported by the same money to peddle them in the west and elsewhere create the fan base for the support of Islamic terrorism around the world.

Yes, but I still don't see why we can't take people at their word when it comes to their religion. They SAY they believe this tripe, and they SAY it motivates their actions. Muslims routinely say how overwhelmingly pervasive their religion is in their lives.

[Coito ergo sum]

My god always agrees with me.

Yes, I do.

Dammit, Bella...stop being so hot...I can't concentrate over here...

[Pappa]

The money comes, in large part, from individual donors around the world, particularly in the west. They donate to Muslim front organizations, which pretend to be charitable or otherwise benign, and then funnel money back to terrorist groups.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't mean the money that funds terrorist directly, but the money that pays for the printing and distribution of books and pamphlets containing extremist propaganda. These and the sheikhs who are funded and supported by the same money to peddle them in the west and elsewhere create the fan base for the support of Islamic terrorism around the world.

Yes, but I still don't see why we can't take people at their word when it comes to their religion. They SAY they believe this tripe, and they SAY it motivates their actions. Muslims routinely say how overwhelmingly pervasive their religion is in their lives.

I'm not saying that's not what motivates them, I'm actually sure it is what motivates them. It's more that they are blind pawns in a larger game played for reasons of global hegemony.

[Edit.... OMG.... that was my 20000th post]

[Twiglet]

To even begin to understand the militancy in the middle east is tricky for a westerner, because the history of our engagements in the region is not widely taught. The media is a very poor teacher, but good information is available academically which outlines the interaction between Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Palestine.

On the specific topic of Wahabbism, Tariq Alis "Clash of Fundamentalisms" is scholarly and very informative. Some of it is available on google books, and you can read up on the historical perspective, if you are interested, here:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=C8h ... &q&f=false

*fingers crossed the massive link works*

p73-79 contain the most interesting details, and the book itself serves as excellenmt source material for the topics under discussion.

It's interesting to me, on this atheist board, where the power and importance of reason and understanding are paraded, and the religious villified for their unwillingness to examine evidence and data critically, how the same criticisms apply to people who prefer inherent political prejudice to active research,

Like the religious, people are obviously interested, because they will spend a great deal of time talking about the issues, but if the time they spend consists of nothing more than recycling comfortable dogma and reacting with denial, then what hope is there for any understanding?

[Coito ergo sum]

The money comes, in large part, from individual donors around the world, particularly in the west. They donate to Muslim front organizations, which pretend to be charitable or otherwise benign, and then funnel money back to terrorist groups.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't mean the money that funds terrorist directly, but the money that pays for the printing and distribution of books and pamphlets containing extremist propaganda. These and the sheikhs who are funded and supported by the same money to peddle them in the west and elsewhere create the fan base for the support of Islamic terrorism around the world.

Yes, but I still don't see why we can't take people at their word when it comes to their religion. They SAY they believe this tripe, and they SAY it motivates their actions. Muslims routinely say how overwhelmingly pervasive their religion is in their lives.

I'm not saying that's not what motivates them, I'm actually sure it is what motivates them. It's more that they are blind pawns in a larger game played for reasons of global hegemony.

[Edit.... OMG.... that was my 20000th post]

I think where we differ is that I think the leaders of this movement for global hegemony also are true believers. I do not think that they are merely corporatists or power hungry miltarists - I believe they think they are on a mission from Allah. That's based on what I've seen them write and say.

[Twiglet]

The money comes, in large part, from individual donors around the world, particularly in the west. They donate to Muslim front organizations, which pretend to be charitable or otherwise benign, and then funnel money back to terrorist groups.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't mean the money that funds terrorist directly, but the money that pays for the printing and distribution of books and pamphlets containing extremist propaganda. These and the sheikhs who are funded and supported by the same money to peddle them in the west and elsewhere create the fan base for the support of Islamic terrorism around the world.

Yes, but I still don't see why we can't take people at their word when it comes to their religion. They SAY they believe this tripe, and they SAY it motivates their actions. Muslims routinely say how overwhelmingly pervasive their religion is in their lives.

I'm not saying that's not what motivates them, I'm actually sure it is what motivates them. It's more that they are blind pawns in a larger game played for reasons of global hegemony.

[Edit.... OMG.... that was my 20000th post]

I think where we differ is that I think the leaders of this movement for global hegemony also are true believers. I do not think that they are merely corporatists or power hungry miltarists - I believe they think they are on a mission from Allah. That's based on what I've seen them write and say.

Fairly convenient psychological projection given who is invading whom, and the respective death tolls.

[charlou]

[Edit.... OMG.... that was my 20000th post]

[Pappa]

The money comes, in large part, from individual donors around the world, particularly in the west. They donate to Muslim front organizations, which pretend to be charitable or otherwise benign, and then funnel money back to terrorist groups.

Maybe I should have been clearer. I don't mean the money that funds terrorist directly, but the money that pays for the printing and distribution of books and pamphlets containing extremist propaganda. These and the sheikhs who are funded and supported by the same money to peddle them in the west and elsewhere create the fan base for the support of Islamic terrorism around the world.

Yes, but I still don't see why we can't take people at their word when it comes to their religion. They SAY they believe this tripe, and they SAY it motivates their actions. Muslims routinely say how overwhelmingly pervasive their religion is in their lives.

I'm not saying that's not what motivates them, I'm actually sure it is what motivates them. It's more that they are blind pawns in a larger game played for reasons of global hegemony.

[Edit.... OMG.... that was my 20000th post]

I think where we differ is that I think the leaders of this movement for global hegemony also are true believers. I do not think that they are merely corporatists or power hungry miltarists - I believe they think they are on a mission from Allah. That's based on what I've seen them write and say.

The people I'm on about don't write or say anything though... they are rich Saudi princes and the like, not Al-Queda Leaders.

[Coito ergo sum]

Fairly convenient psychological projection given who is invading whom, and the respective death tolls.

It's not projection at all. One side says it's doing what it's doing for religious reasons. The other doesn't.

[JOZeldenrust]

I don't believe there's much in term of leadership going on within militant Islam. Islamic terrorism is an emergent phenomenon.

http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/b ... cott-atran

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't believe there's much in term of leadership going on within militant Islam. Islamic terrorism is an emergent phenomenon.

http://thesciencenetwork.org/programs/b ... cott-atran

The lack of stable leadership increases the danger, because what we have are splinter groups and charismatic personalities vying for power.

[Azathoth]

Why is mandy still being fed anyway?

click me please

Edit: spoilered for autoplay
edit2: spoiler doesn't stop the autoplay. - leo-rcc, changed to link

[Tigger]

Why is mandy still being fed anyway?

Click me please

Edit: spoilered for autoplay

It's a bloody good point actually. I find his remarks inflammatory and feel the need to respond, even though there is no evidence that he actually understands the comments directed at him. Mandelson's responses aren't filled with mind-shattering intellect.

edit: iframe changed to link, the spoiler doesn't stop autoplay. - leo-rcc

[JimC]

Twiglet wrte:

Fairly convenient psychological projection given who is invading whom, and the respective death tolls.

It is perfectly possible to be critical of the West's partly bungled response to terrorism, specifically the Iraq war, while still seeing militant, fundamentalist Islam as a major threat to people's safety around the world, and wanting effective, and if necessary, bloody action against them.

(and I know that is easier said than done...)