Sam Harris: Science can answer moral questions

[RuleBritannia]

[Animavore]

Uh-oh. I know where this is going.

[Comte de Saint-Germain]

Wow! His remarks are eloquent and intelligent, and I can't help but agreeing with him. What a fine and outstanding example for atheism, he is, by saving morality from those pesky imperialist apologists relativists!

[Animavore]

There it is.

[charlou]

Downloaded to watch after work.

[Trolldor]

One mistake, assigns objective value in 'survival'/'flourish' etc.

[Chinaski]

While naturalist fallacies should be avoided, a recent article in the guardian on epigenetics seems to indicate an overall trend toward a more science-based, monist, exclusive attitude towards ethics. The only possible final conclusion is that morals come from us and our environment.

[dj357]

morals are simply a human construct that we use to structure our interaction with one another in such a way as to contribute to general individual happiness in a meaningful way. As such I can't see why we cannot objectively identify certain policies, procedures, ethics etcetera which would contribute most to the specific values which lead to the greatest individual happiness on the largest scale.

take away humans from the planet (and the universe) and we have no need for moral ideas or discussions.

[charlou]

morals are simply a human construct that we use to structure our interaction with one another in such a way as to contribute to general individual happiness in a meaningful way. As such I can't see why we cannot objectively identify certain policies, procedures, ethics etcetera which would contribute most to the specific values which lead to the greatest individual happiness on the largest scale.

take away humans from the planet (and the universe) and we have no need for moral ideas or discussions.

Take away humans and there is no we.

[dj357]

morals are simply a human construct that we use to structure our interaction with one another in such a way as to contribute to general individual happiness in a meaningful way. As such I can't see why we cannot objectively identify certain policies, procedures, ethics etcetera which would contribute most to the specific values which lead to the greatest individual happiness on the largest scale.

take away humans from the planet (and the universe) and we have no need for moral ideas or discussions.

Take away humans and there is no we.

aha, touche, however the objective need for morals is absent in a world devoid of intelligent beings who can conceieve of ways to positively interact with each other (which we happen to call morals) if there was no humankind on earth, there would be no way to apply any kind of moral structure because there would be no intelligences who could understand and apply these poilicies. when you get down to it that's all morals are. Policies for Interaction.

[Trolldor]

Certain animals do have rudimentary morals. Can be seen in many-a community-based animals.

[dj357]

Certain animals do have rudimentary morals. Can be seen in many-a community-based animals.

certainly this is true. but there is no conscious adherence to an understanding of a moral structure. these are genetic imperatives that have proven useful throughout the evolutionary process of these animals.

[Trolldor]

How do you know that? And how do you know our morality isn't built by our genes? That our 'conscious acceptance' isn't just a delusion.

[dj357]

How do you know that? And how do you know our morality isn't built by our genes? That our 'conscious acceptance' isn't just a delusion.

this is entirely possible, and I could be wrong, but the thing is as soon as you admit that Islamic societies frame their morals differently to most Western societies, and that moral structures police the way people interact with each other in order to acheive specific goals e.g. religious obedience, social order, human happiness etc... you logically have to admit that certain policies used to acheive these goals are more effective than other policies.

[Trolldor]

And primate groups have different forms of 'social norms', grooming rituals and so on, amongst those of the same species.

Differentiation doesn't change the fact that 'isolated' populations developed isolated moralities, and even then there is a lot which is similar about them - primarily don't kill anyone who's part of your group.