U.S. passes "historic" healthcare bill

[NineOneFour]

It's really too bad that some opponents of universal health care worry that when the system really starts attending to everyone on an equitable basis, the care provided won't include enough stroking of the ego.

Dude, no shit.

[Coito ergo sum]

Yet another guy who cannot read the bill.

The bill includes mandates for employers to offer health care.

Except that under the bill, they can actually require the employee to pay some or all of the cost of that premium. My employer currently pays part of my premium, and I pay part of it. My share, right now, for HMO, vision and dental is around 300$/month.

Do you think that if they stop paying for the rest of that premium and make me do it that they're going to raise my salary by that amount? Just because they're forced to offer the ability for their employees to join a group plan, that does not mean they will have to pay for it.

They don't have to pay for it now, unless of course its part of their plan to hire and keep good employees. This legislation actually may make employers more competitive when it comes to offering group plans.

That's why businesses are nearly all against the new law, because it will make them more competitive.

As it will become more competitive as all employers are at least offering something.

They don't have to pay for it.

Oh and in Canada I pay $200 for basic medical ie necessary medical services and advanced medical ie prescriptions, vision, dental, massage, preventative stuff ...

In the US I pay less than $200 a month for my policy now, and I'm not in an employment based group plan.

[Martok]

Oh, that not enough for you, Mr. America is #1? From that BusinessWeek article:

The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close.

USA USA USA!!!

Its bizarre how republicans and libertarians find this acceptable and any effort to make it better they view with horror and a threat to the republic.

[Martok]

In the US I pay less than $200 a month for my policy now, and I'm not in an employment based group plan.

What is your deductible?

[Coito ergo sum]

In the US I pay less than $200 a month for my policy now, and I'm not in an employment based group plan.

What is your deductible?

$2500 - United Health One
Annual out of pocket limit $5500 (including deductible).
$35 copay for annual exam.

[Coito ergo sum]

Oh, that not enough for you, Mr. America is #1? From that BusinessWeek article:

The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close.

USA USA USA!!!

Its bizarre how republicans and libertarians find this acceptable and any effort to make it better they view with horror and a threat to the republic.

So what? Who is considered "sick" in this study? I don't go to the doctor when I have a cold or a flu-like symptoms. I go to the pharmacy, by some Ny-Quil, eat chicken soup, drink orange juice and rest. Do we really want everyone going to the doctor every time they sneeze?

[Surendra Darathy]

In the US I pay less than $200 a month for my policy now, and I'm not in an employment based group plan.

Well, for a guy who makes $12 an hour, which is all I would be willing to pay you for any tasks appropriate to your level of communications skills, you'd spend two and a half working days a month just paying for your health plan. Then you'd spend two and a half days a month working to pay for food for yourself. There's a week down the loo. Let's say some slumlord is willing to rent you a space for $400 a month. There goes another week. Hint: Don't get anyone pregnant!

Don't forget four or five bucks a day for busfare. Cable TV? A luxury for those who need access to the 700 Club!

I suggest you decline my offer of employment, and go open a greeting card shop on the cheerful side of town. Be sure to bring capital you've inherited from Daddy.

Do we really want everyone going to the doctor every time they sneeze?

See what I mean about communications skills?

[Martok]

In the US I pay less than $200 a month for my policy now, and I'm not in an employment based group plan.

What is your deductible?

$2500 - United Health One
Annual out of pocket limit $5500 (including deductible).
$35 copay for annual exam.

I thought so.

[Martok]

Oh, that not enough for you, Mr. America is #1? From that BusinessWeek article:

The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close.

USA USA USA!!!

Its bizarre how republicans and libertarians find this acceptable and any effort to make it better they view with horror and a threat to the republic.

So what? Who is considered "sick" in this study? I don't go to the doctor when I have a cold or a flu-like symptoms. I go to the pharmacy, by some Ny-Quil, eat chicken soup, drink orange juice and rest. Do we really want everyone going to the doctor every time they sneeze?

When traveling free clinics open up thousands of people go to them and many of them are sent to the hospital cause their conditions are deemed serious enough to warrant treatment RIGHT NOW.

These free clinics are only open for a day or two. Those that couldn't make it are left to go without treatment.

[Coito ergo sum]

In the US I pay less than $200 a month for my policy now, and I'm not in an employment based group plan.

Well, for a guy who makes $12 an hour, which is all I would be willing to pay you for any tasks appropriate to your level of communications skills, you'd spend two and a half working days a month just paying for your health plan.

That's pretty cheap, actually. I know people making $12-ish an hour and they pay $300 a month for their cars, plus car insurance (which can easily be $200 a month).

Then you'd spend two and a half days a month working to pay for food for yourself.

You don't think you should have, as a grown man, to supply yourself with food? No no...let me get it for you...

There's a week down the loo.

How cheap do you expect it to be? Free?

Let's say some slumlord is willing to rent you a space for $400 a month.

There are plenty of decent apartments at $400 a month in towns like Tampa, Orlando and Jacksonville, Florida, the Detroit suburbs, and in thousands of other cities and towns around the US. Maybe if you're single, you can get a roommate and pay $900 a month for decent two bedroom apartment, or if you get married or live with a significant other, you can both split the rent.

There goes another week. Hint: Don't get anyone pregnant!

Yes, things cost money. What a tragedy.

And, yes, if you get a woman pregnant, then be prepared to pay. It's such an atrocity to suggest that a grown man be responsible for his children.

Don't forget four or five bucks a day for busfare.

How much should it cost? $3? $2? Free buses?

Cable TV? A luxury for those who need access to the 700 Club!

In the US, you can put up an antenna and get, depending on where you are, about 3 to 8 channels for nothing. Zero. Until I was 16 years old, hardly anyone had cable television. We got along just fine. For cable tv now or a cheap satellite plan, you can get a bunch of channels for under $30 a month, and at&t uverse has television, plus high speed internet, plus home telephone service for like $99 amonth.

About 10 years ago, I was up against it financially. So, I looked at all my expenses. I did away with a home phone (landline) and saved money by just having one cell phone for all my needs and watching my usage. I canceled my cable television and just lived with free television and saved that expense. I cut out miscellaneous other expenses and tightened the belt for a while. That's not bragging - it's just an example that sometimes you just can't buy certain things, and we all make choices in life. One person wants cable, and the other wants to go out for drinks, maybe.

I suggest you decline my offer of employment, and go open a greeting card shop on the cheerful side of town. Be sure to bring capital you've inherited from Daddy.

Funny, I am a first generation American with as many relatives in the United States right now as I can count on one hand. I have never received one dime of inheritance from anyone.

If you are a grown, healthy, adult male you can make more than $12 an hour if you wanted to. There are TONS of jobs that can be done that pay more than that. Even bartenders around my town make about $20 an hour after tips and such, and construction workers make more than that, and certain commissioned salespeople, etc. If you are a grown, healthy, adult male and making $12 an hour, working only 40 hours a week, then I suggest to you that that is your choice.

Do we really want everyone going to the doctor every time they sneeze?

See what I mean about communications skills?

Is that a no?

[Coito ergo sum]

Oh, that not enough for you, Mr. America is #1? From that BusinessWeek article:

The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close.

USA USA USA!!!

Its bizarre how republicans and libertarians find this acceptable and any effort to make it better they view with horror and a threat to the republic.

So what? Who is considered "sick" in this study? I don't go to the doctor when I have a cold or a flu-like symptoms. I go to the pharmacy, by some Ny-Quil, eat chicken soup, drink orange juice and rest. Do we really want everyone going to the doctor every time they sneeze?

When traveling free clinics open up thousands of people go to them and many of them are sent to the hospital cause their conditions are deemed serious enough to warrant treatment RIGHT NOW.

These free clinics are only open for a day or two. Those that couldn't make it are left to go without treatment.

They are absolutely not left to go without treatment. There are walk-in clinics almost everywhere. People can travel to them and get a check up anytime they want to. They can go the emergency room directly, and they can not, as a matter of law, be denied care.

[Coito ergo sum]

In the US I pay less than $200 a month for my policy now, and I'm not in an employment based group plan.

What is your deductible?

$2500 - United Health One
Annual out of pocket limit $5500 (including deductible).
$35 copay for annual exam.

I thought so.

What's wrong with that?

There will be copays with national healthcare too, my friend. Bank on it.

And, the $2500 deductible is great! I love it. I pay a low premium, and if I'm really sick (health care costs can easily exceed $5500 if something serious happens) then I know I can't be saddled under a lifetime of debt to get well. If I need to go to the hospital for a week and get surgery - the most I pay is $5500. If I don't have the $5500 I can make payments. If I am smart, I stick $10 here and $10 there away into a safety account for that purpose.

I don't see why I should be prohibited from buying a plan like this, and the new law does prohibit that, when it goes into effect.

However, lowering the deductible on policies dramatically increases the cost of the insurance to the point where it doesn't make sense. To lower the deductible to $500, I would pay more than double for the policy, and in a littlle over a year, I will have paid out the deductible and the out of pocket limit. So, basically, to get the lower deductible, I am just agreeing to pay the annual out of pocket limit monthly instead of on the if-come that I am actually hospitalized at some point during the year.

The myth being fostered by the proponents of the new law is that things get better cost-wise after the new law takes effect. It doesn't. We will, for example, be unable to buy a nice, low premium, higher deductible policy like the one I described.

[Martok]

They are absolutely not left to go without treatment. There are walk-in clinics almost everywhere. People can travel to them and get a check up anytime they want to. They can go the emergency room directly, and they can not, as a matter of law, be denied care.

Who pays the bill?

An ER visit could run $2,000 or more.

An ambulance is about $2,000 also.

[Martok]

And, the $2500 deductible is great! I love it. I pay a low premium, and if I'm really sick (health care costs can easily exceed $5500 if something serious happens) then I know I can't be saddled under a lifetime of debt to get well. If I need to go to the hospital for a week and get surgery - the most I pay is $5500. If I don't have the $5500 I can make payments. If I am smart, I stick $10 here and $10 there away into a safety account for that purpose.

NEWS FLASH: it'll tale a lot more than $10 here or $10 there to pay off $5,500 bill.

[NineOneFour]

Oh, that not enough for you, Mr. America is #1? From that BusinessWeek article:

The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close.

USA USA USA!!!

Its bizarre how republicans and libertarians find this acceptable and any effort to make it better they view with horror and a threat to the republic.

So what? Who is considered "sick" in this study?

Oh, you know, cancer victims, people with diabetes, no one of any consequence to you.

I don't go to the doctor when I have a cold or a flu-like symptoms. I go to the pharmacy, by some Ny-Quil, eat chicken soup, drink orange juice and rest. Do we really want everyone going to the doctor every time they sneeze?

Considering the H1N1 scare, yeah.

All you're doing is rationing care.

Businesses are not all against this, BTW. What businesses really want is to cut costs. I agree with them and think we need to go a few steps further. But I'm willing to take this for now.

Your previous post about your health insurance is a non-sequitur, something that you seem fond of posting. The point is not that YOU have health care, but that it can be lost, denied, or you could be one of 15% of American citizens without health care.

At least you've stopped lying about what was in the bill and how much you think you'd have to pay. I'd call that progress of a sort.