mozg wrote:SamanthaJane wrote:Ha! Neither have I or anyone else needing life saving healthcare in Canada. Sure sometimes you need to wait because other people's lives are at stake ... but really if I need my elbow operated on and had to wait because someone needed a heart bypass ... I'd gladly wait.
I would be appalled if my doctor told me I had to get on a waiting list for knee surgery.
But you're not appalled at all if you have to wait several weeks, are you?
I'm not referring to emergencies getting OR priority on a particular day, but if I were told I had to just deal with living in pain for months as some of the stories I have heard from Canadian friends, I'd be really, really unhappy.
I assume that you can actually read.
Wait times in Canada: worst
Wait times in the US: second worst.
Now - wait for it - there are more than two countries in the industrialized world.
SamanthaJane wrote:My dad has four stents in his heart, never paid a dime for three separate operations, never waited either. He hit his head two Christmases back and lost his memory making ability for a few hours. There was never any question, we just went to the hospital he was treated immediately by a neurosurgeon.
My insurance would cover stents at 100%. I'd pay 75$ for the head injury unless I was admitted to the hospital rather than just treated in the ER, in which case the insurance would pick up the whole tab.
And if it cost too much for the insurance company, they'd declare that you had a pre-existing condition and drop your ass and deny treatment.
If you lose your job, you lose your insurance.
It isn't just about YOU and it isn't just about what you have now. It's about security.
SamanthaJane wrote:My darling American husband had a tummy ache one day so we went to look at the pharmacy to see if there was anything to help. He made the comment that if it were any worse it would probably be 'cheaper' to go to Emergency. My response was wouldn't it be better to go to Emerg if it was any worse anyway, for his own health. I think that is when he started to understand the Canadian system. We don't want you to have to look stuff up on line and have to diagnose yourself, we want you to have easy and complete access to doctors. We want everyone to have easy and complete access to doctors.
I don't really know what you're calling a 'tummy ache'. Is it mild stomach upset, diarrhea, vomiting, or pain so bad that he's doubled over? I wouldn't be at the doctor for any of the first three unless it went on for more than a week, or I couldn't keep fluids down.
Yeah, because you don't get it paid for through taxes. So you suffer.
For the fourth, I'd go to the emergency room because depending on the location of the pain it could be something that requires surgery, like a ruptured appendix.
People without health insurance don't go at all. They live with the pain.
But, you know, fuck em, right? I mean, it's not as if you know any of them anyway, so they must not be human beings.
I don't go to the doctor for the cold or flu either, because they are (for someone in my general state of good health with a functional immune system) self limiting conditions that will not respond to antibiotics. I can go to a doctor, an urgent care, a specialist,
No you can't. You have to make an appointment. You don't just get to walk in off the street unless the doctor is having a particularly nice day.
Also, you get to do these things because you have insurance, which in America, still, is ephemeral, and can be taken away from you.
or an emergency room at any time.
No, you can't. I mean, you can go there, but they'll toss your ass out if it isn't an actual emergency.
If I need an MRI or something, I get it done the same day. I might have to wait a couple of hours, not a couple of weeks or months.
I call bullshit.
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezra ... wait_times
Here's a fun puzzle. Fill in the blanks in the statement below:
In his talk, __________ conceded that "the ___ healthcare system is not timely." He cited "recent statistics from the Institution of Healthcare Improvement… that people are waiting an average of about 70 days to try to see a provider. And in many circumstances people initially diagnosed with cancer are waiting over a month."
If you said "Troy Brennan, CEO of Aetna," and "United States," you'd be right! If you said Canada, or Britain, you'd be wrong. The article goes on:
A Commonwealth Fund study of six highly industrialized countries, the U.S., and five nations with national health systems, Britain, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, found waiting times were worse in the U.S. than in all the other countries except Canada. And, most of the Canadian data so widely reported by the U.S. media is out of date, and misleading, according to PNHP and CNA/NNOC.
In Canada, there are no waits for emergency surgeries, and the median time for non-emergency elective surgery has been dropping as a result of public pressure and increased funding so that it is now equal to or better than the U.S. in most areas, the organizations say. Statistics Canada's latest figures show that median wait times for elective surgery in Canada is now three weeks.
"There are significant differences between the U.S. and Canada, too," said Burger. "In Canada, no one is denied care because of cost, because their treatment or test was not 'pre-approved' or because they have a pre-existing condition."
A recent Business Week article arrived at similar conclusion:
oth data and anecdotes show that the American people are already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal health-care systems. Take Susan M., a 54-year-old human resources executive in New York City. She faithfully makes an appointment for a mammogram every April, knowing the wait will be at least six weeks. She went in for her routine screening at the end of May, then had another because the first wasn't clear. That second X-ray showed an abnormality, and the doctor wanted to perform a needle biopsy, an outpatient procedure. His first available date: mid-August.
The article continues on" "If you find a suspicious-looking mole and want to see a dermatologist, you can expect an average wait of 38 days in the U.S., and up to 73 days if you live in Boston, according to researchers at the University of California at San Francisco who studied the matter. Got a knee injury? A 2004 survey by medical recruitment firm Merritt, Hawkins & Associates found the average time needed to see an orthopedic surgeon ranges from 8 days in Atlanta to 43 days in Los Angeles. Nationwide, the average is 17 days."
One important note on our system's wait times is that, unlike in other countries, we don't collect the data. "There is no systemized collection of data on wait times in the U.S," says Business Week. "That makes it difficult to draw comparisons with countries that have national health systems, where wait times are not only tracked but made public." That's a side benefit of the universal systems, which due to their coherence and incentives, are actually quite transparent. That allows not only for an accurate assessment of the problems, but the effective deployment of resources to treat them.
And by the way, want to know which country has the lowest wait times in international comparisons? Hint: It's where sauerkraut comes from.
Oh, that not enough for you, Mr. America is #1? From that BusinessWeek article:
The Commonwealth study did find one area where the U.S. was first by a wide margin: 51% of sick Americans surveyed did not visit a doctor, get a needed test, or fill a prescription within the past two years because of cost. No other country came close.
You cherry-picked MRI time because America does very well with MRI scans.
The cherry-picking is obvious and everyone is wise to this game. Canada has long waiting times, so you pick on Canada for that and try to imply it's also true across the rest of the industrialized world.
Next, we'll hear from you about the handful of cancers that are better treated in the US, while ignoring the majority of cancers that have lower rates in Europe.
