U.S. passes "historic" healthcare bill

[Coito ergo sum]

But mostly the Republicans.

How so? The Democrats were the majority in Congress for most of the last 70 years. They have had majorities since 2006, that's the last 4 years. Much of their legislative agenda has gotten through. They have had unprecedented majorities and power since 11/2008, with the benefit of a Democrat President. In the last 72 years, since 1938, Congress has been controlled by the Democrats for 58 years, and by the Republicans for 14 years. And, the Presidency was held by the Democrats for about 36 years each.

So, no, not "mostly" Republicans. The evidence is quite to the contrary. It's been "mostly" Democrats.

[Coito ergo sum]

But, anyone who thinks that the Republicans were "in control" to the exclusion of Democrats and that the damage was done only in the last 10 years is a tad bit myopic. Both major parties are to blame for our predicament now, and its just as much a function of too much bad government policy as it is too little good government policy.

While conservatives whine about the health care bill, they didn't say a thing about the Bush tax cuts

Because the tax cuts helped the economy.

and two wars. All of them unpaid for.

Well, we did have a little thing called 9/11/01 and the Afghan invasion which was unanimously (or perhaps one no vote) approved by the US Congress. Do you think the Democratic Party did not agree with the Afghan invasion?

Regarding Iraq, you forget also that the overwhelming majority of Democrats voted in favor of it too.

The debt clock in New York was actually going backwards in the last two years of Clinton's term of office. It was shut off but restarted a year after Bush was appointed president and it started going forward again.

And, now the Obama/Congressional Democrat team are on their way to beating out the Bush 8 years debt increase in their first 2 years. By November of this year, the budget estimates are that the national debt will have increased more in the first 2 years of the Obama administration than the entire 8 years of the Bush administration. So, please don't talk about the national debt as if the Democrats give a rats ass about it.

[Valden]

On the issue of jail time:

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/ ... ml?showall

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."

The note was a follow-up to Ensign's questioning at the markup.

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM110_0 ... ment2.html

Lol funny.

Especially considering it would just be cheaper to pay the $$1,900 fine in the first place. And those who are having financial hardships don't have to pay the fine.

[redunderthebed]

No negotiating with the drug companies. The president gave that away last year.

You think the government can negotiate well with drug companies?

Yes little 'ol Australia does and has done for years we just haven't handed ourselves over to the drug companies.

Isn't the main point that millions of poorer people who could not get medical help when they need it will be able to? However you do it, get on with it.

To us in Europe it looks like the Dark Ages.

Europe ain't the center of the universe any more than the U.S. is. To us, the stories of how long it takes you folks to get in for an MRI or similar procedures is likewise "Dark Ages" -ish.

What a load of crap when we need a MRI and the alike we aren't thrown to the wolves we are booked an appointment and we get it done.If you want to see a doctor that takes awhile however if you are really need of help (i.e hospital care) you are look after very very well and not a cent out of your pocket EVER.

Brilliant living in a evil communist country where there is no personal choice.

Start researching your shit instead of swallowing properganda spewed by idiots who never have to worry about fucking medical bills.

[FBM]

...Start researching your shit instead of swallowing properganda spewed by idiots who never have to worry about fucking medical bills.

Poor people don't do medical research, so why should they be entitled to receive its benefits?

[Feck]

If democracy doesn't get you what you want, try murder.

It seems to me that the tactics used by republicans to fight universal health care have justified it's introduction .

The lies , propaganda, and now threats and violence would indicate that vested interests stand to loose lots of money .....these were the people responsible for the health of a nation ...

[mozg]

Gawd I really wish you guys down south would get this worked out. Not only are you not getting decent healthcare, you are paying through the nose for it.

I'm hopeful that this bill fixes that.

Canada might have wait times for non urgent surgeries, but I still feel much much safer here than I do in the US, even though my healthcare covers any issues I may have in the US.

I have great health care. Worth every penny I spend on it. No idea what these 'wait times' are, either. I just schedule stuff whenever it is convenient for me, and pick what doctor I want.

I'm hoping though that my employer, faced with increased taxes, doesn't decide that since the government is now requiring people to buy individual insurance to drop that from the benefit package. Anything I'd be able to buy on the government exchange will definitely not cover elective or medically necessary pregnancy termination, and who knows what else.

[NineOneFour]

This email is making the rounds - kinda funny:

Let me get this straight......we're trying to pass a health
care plan written by a committee whose chairman says
he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that hasn't
read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a
president that also hasn't read it and who smokes, with
funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay
his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is
obese, and financed by a country that's broke.

What could possibly go wrong?

Its broke because the political party in control for eight of the last ten years broke it.

Now they want us to listen to them again. Yeah right.

You guys are taking this joke a bit too seriously.

But, anyone who thinks that the Republicans were "in control" to the exclusion of Democrats and that the damage was done only in the last 10 years is a tad bit myopic. Both major parties are to blame for our predicament now, and its just as much a function of too much bad government policy as it is too little good government policy.

Quite true, although Democrats were using Republican ideas. So the philosophy of the Republican party is at fault, even if Democrats joined them in their headlong rush to deregulate everything leading to fiscal Hell.

[NineOneFour]

But, anyone who thinks that the Republicans were "in control" to the exclusion of Democrats and that the damage was done only in the last 10 years is a tad bit myopic. Both major parties are to blame for our predicament now, and its just as much a function of too much bad government policy as it is too little good government policy.

While conservatives whine about the health care bill, they didn't say a thing about the Bush tax cuts

Because the tax cuts helped the economy.

The tax cuts are still in effect.

The economy ain't doing that hot, dude.

And, now the Obama/Congressional Democrat team are on their way to beating out the Bush 8 years debt increase in their first 2 years. By November of this year, the budget estimates are that the national debt will have increased more in the first 2 years of the Obama administration than the entire 8 years of the Bush administration. So, please don't talk about the national debt as if the Democrats give a rats ass about it.

Well, that's also a lie.

You want to blame Obama for the deficit he inherited and for Bush spending programs that are still continuing. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

[NineOneFour]

Gawd I really wish you guys down south would get this worked out. Not only are you not getting decent healthcare, you are paying through the nose for it.

I'm hopeful that this bill fixes that.

Canada might have wait times for non urgent surgeries, but I still feel much much safer here than I do in the US, even though my healthcare covers any issues I may have in the US.

I have great health care. Worth every penny I spend on it. No idea what these 'wait times' are, either. I just schedule stuff whenever it is convenient for me, and pick what doctor I want.

I'm hoping though that my employer, faced with increased taxes, doesn't decide that since the government is now requiring people to buy individual insurance to drop that from the benefit package. Anything I'd be able to buy on the government exchange will definitely not cover elective or medically necessary pregnancy termination, and who knows what else.

Yet another guy who cannot read the bill.

The bill includes mandates for employers to offer health care.

[Surendra Darathy]

The bill includes mandates for employers to offer health care.

You mean, to offer health care as part of a compensation package?

In my experience, if costs rise, the shortage is divided amongst the peasants. If costs fall, the cost of compensation falls with it, and the rest drops to the bottom line, barring any weirdness such as insurance swaps.

[Coito ergo sum]

The bill includes mandates for employers to offer health care.

You mean, to offer health care as part of a compensation package?

In my experience, if costs rise, the shortage is divided amongst the peasants. If costs fall, the cost of compensation falls with it, and the rest drops to the bottom line, barring any weirdness such as insurance swaps.

True. And, employers are not required to pay for it. This is not an "employers must buy their employees health insurance bill."

[Twoflower]

This is a reminder from your friendly moderator to play nice. No insults, name calling, or other nasty things please.

[mozg]

Yet another guy who cannot read the bill.

The bill includes mandates for employers to offer health care.

Except that under the bill, they can actually require the employee to pay some or all of the cost of that premium. My employer currently pays part of my premium, and I pay part of it. My share, right now, for HMO, vision and dental is around 300$/month.

Do you think that if they stop paying for the rest of that premium and make me do it that they're going to raise my salary by that amount? Just because they're forced to offer the ability for their employees to join a group plan, that does not mean they will have to pay for it.

[SamanthaJane]

Yet another guy who cannot read the bill.

The bill includes mandates for employers to offer health care.

Except that under the bill, they can actually require the employee to pay some or all of the cost of that premium. My employer currently pays part of my premium, and I pay part of it. My share, right now, for HMO, vision and dental is around 300$/month.

Do you think that if they stop paying for the rest of that premium and make me do it that they're going to raise my salary by that amount? Just because they're forced to offer the ability for their employees to join a group plan, that does not mean they will have to pay for it.

They don't have to pay for it now, unless of course its part of their plan to hire and keep good employees. This legislation actually may make employers more competitive when it comes to offering group plans. As it will become more competitive as all employers are at least offering something.

Oh and in Canada I pay $200 for basic medical ie necessary medical services and advanced medical ie prescriptions, vision, dental, massage, preventative stuff ...