Fitna - Geert Wilders and Islam

[charlou]

I first heard of this film via reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book, Infidel ... have wanted to see it since ...

[Cunt]

I first heard of this film when I read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book, Infidel ... have wanted to see it since ...

You might want to look into the court case which Geert is going through (has went through?) over his outspoken criticism of Islam.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ZUZ9CP ... r_embedded[/youtube]

[charlou]

Hi, yes ... there's a thread about it here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=8505

[leo-rcc]

Just so we are clear on this, I think Wilders is a snake. Sure he has the right to make Fitna (and Fitna 2 is in the making) and yes he has every right to criticize Islam. I criticize Islam. But his motives are just to win votes, by polarizing the Dutch and creating an us vs them mentality. And I don't like that, and I don't like him.

The enemy of my enemy is not my friend in this case.

[charlou]

Threads merged.

[Cunt]

It's been a while since Pat Condell was this wrong.

Which part was he wrong about?

[Meekychuppet]

Hatred is an offence inflicted on the offender by the offendee. As soon as you criminalise the person saying something potentially offensive about religion then you have a law that can convict anyone of anything,

This is a trial for heresy, make no mistake about it. I don't like Wilders but that is irrelevant and I have tried to keep blogging about this regularly because if this man is convicted then it puts the Enlightenment under threat. For it to happen in Amsterdam, of all places is so ironic.

[Meekychuppet]

I first heard of this film via reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book, Infidel ... have wanted to see it since ...

It's shit.

[leo-rcc]

Hatred is an offence inflicted on the offender by the offendee. As soon as you criminalise the person saying something potentially offensive about religion then you have a law that can convict anyone of anything,

This is a trial for heresy, make no mistake about it. I don't like Wilders but that is irrelevant and I have tried to keep blogging about this regularly because if this man is convicted then it puts the Enlightenment under threat. For it to happen in Amsterdam, of all places is so ironic.

I disagree. He is not in the least bit interested in free speech or any of that. He just is using the free speech card to try and weasel out of an indictment. Even in the Netherlands free speech has a limit, and this trial is to determine if he crossed that line or not. Meanwhile Wilders is trying to make a political spectacle of it for his personal gain.

[leo-rcc]

I first heard of this film via reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book, Infidel ... have wanted to see it since ...

It's shit.

It is that.

The film "Submission" by Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is much much better.

[redunderthebed]

Hatred is an offence inflicted on the offender by the offendee. As soon as you criminalise the person saying something potentially offensive about religion then you have a law that can convict anyone of anything,

This is a trial for heresy, make no mistake about it. I don't like Wilders but that is irrelevant and I have tried to keep blogging about this regularly because if this man is convicted then it puts the Enlightenment under threat. For it to happen in Amsterdam, of all places is so ironic.

I disagree. He is not in the least bit interested in free speech or any of that. He just is using the free speech card to try and weasel out of an indictment. Even in the Netherlands free speech has a limit, and this trial is to determine if he crossed that line or not. Meanwhile Wilders is trying to make a political spectacle of it for his personal gain.

Just like every other fascist far-right racist fuckwit.

He has no interest in "criticism" in islam he just wants to use it as a card to gain votes.

[Meekychuppet]

Hatred is an offence inflicted on the offender by the offendee. As soon as you criminalise the person saying something potentially offensive about religion then you have a law that can convict anyone of anything,

This is a trial for heresy, make no mistake about it. I don't like Wilders but that is irrelevant and I have tried to keep blogging about this regularly because if this man is convicted then it puts the Enlightenment under threat. For it to happen in Amsterdam, of all places is so ironic.

I disagree. He is not in the least bit interested in free speech or any of that. He just is using the free speech card to try and weasel out of an indictment. Even in the Netherlands free speech has a limit, and this trial is to determine if he crossed that line or not. Meanwhile Wilders is trying to make a political spectacle of it for his personal gain.

Just like every other fascist far-right racist fuckwit.

He has no interest in "criticism" in islam he just wants to use it as a card to gain votes.

But that is the point. You don't prosecute idiots. You ridicule them. We really shouldn't ban ideas, no matter how stupid.

[charlou]

I first heard of this film via reading Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book, Infidel ... have wanted to see it since ...

It's shit.

It is that.

The film "Submission" by Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali is much much better.

Another one I want to see.

[Stublore]

Hatred is an offence inflicted on the offender by the offendee. As soon as you criminalise the person saying something potentially offensive about religion then you have a law that can convict anyone of anything,

This is a trial for heresy, make no mistake about it. I don't like Wilders but that is irrelevant and I have tried to keep blogging about this regularly because if this man is convicted then it puts the Enlightenment under threat. For it to happen in Amsterdam, of all places is so ironic.

I disagree. He is not in the least bit interested in free speech or any of that. He just is using the free speech card to try and weasel out of an indictment. Even in the Netherlands free speech has a limit, and this trial is to determine if he crossed that line or not. Meanwhile Wilders is trying to make a political spectacle of it for his personal gain.

When the truth is not a defence, then that is a time to worry!
Iirc the prosecutors have said something along the lines of "It doesn't matter if it's the truth, it's illegal".!
When you cannot tell the truth without being prosecuted by the State, then I don't think you have Free Speech.

[redunderthebed]

Hatred is an offence inflicted on the offender by the offendee. As soon as you criminalise the person saying something potentially offensive about religion then you have a law that can convict anyone of anything,

This is a trial for heresy, make no mistake about it. I don't like Wilders but that is irrelevant and I have tried to keep blogging about this regularly because if this man is convicted then it puts the Enlightenment under threat. For it to happen in Amsterdam, of all places is so ironic.

I disagree. He is not in the least bit interested in free speech or any of that. He just is using the free speech card to try and weasel out of an indictment. Even in the Netherlands free speech has a limit, and this trial is to determine if he crossed that line or not. Meanwhile Wilders is trying to make a political spectacle of it for his personal gain.

Just like every other fascist far-right racist fuckwit.

He has no interest in "criticism" in islam he just wants to use it as a card to gain votes.

But that is the point. You don't prosecute idiots. You ridicule them. We really shouldn't ban ideas, no matter how stupid.

If it was a legitimate idea then yes i'd agree with you when its just bigotry and racism dressed up then it should be banned we should not give those people a leg up by saying its freedom of speech its not its an abuse of it and often to further goals that would deny others their rights and freedoms.