Apology from Richard Dawkins (Yes Really).

[klr]

...
So, having rambled enough, I'll stop about here. Hope to be a fruitful part of many discussions on Rationalia in future, and here's hoping that the large majority of the former RD.net forum community find their way here or to rationalskepticism.org! What are the admins of these 2 forums like? More level-headed, I hope.... any chance of these being shut down and posts obliterated?

Welcome jez, and great first post!

I'm afraid most of us here (staff included), can be a little bit mad at times, but in an enjoyable sort of way.

[Bella Fortuna]

Yes, jez - welcome, and excellent post.

[macdoc]

Excellent post Jez especially given you were not in the middle of things...a very good summary.

Welcome tho I'm a newbie here as well....10k posts at RDNet make me one of the wounded... :pissed:

Love it here - RD could get stodgy and bit too pompous on the religious wars...prefer the science wars m'self

[Ayaan]

Some things change, some don't

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?t=3108

To be fair, that thread was started in December of 2006, not long after RDF got started and long before Josh had done anything to earn the ire of the membership.

[Valden]

Some things change, some don't

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?t=3108

To be fair, that thread was started in December of 2006, not long after RDF got started and long before Josh had done anything to earn the ire of the membership.

I think that's why he's laughing at it.

It's funny how regular members are giving praise to Josh, (which is the part that has changed) while Richard is also giving praise (the part that hasn't changed)

[Faithfree]

http://richarddawkins.net/articles/5165

by Richard Dawkins
The controversy caused by our decision to close the forums on RichardDawkins.net ...........*SPIP*........... Once again, I apologise for our mistakes and take full responsibility for them.

Sincerely
Richard

A good start to the healing process.
It would be good to see an apology from Josh as well.

[charlou]

Thankfully, I missed this latest fall-out. I have continued to enjoy RD’s front page and articles, but I haven’t posted on RDF for well over a year now since the creation of Rationalia. I understood RD’s reasoning since the previous fall-out and simply keep my OT and “fun” posts confined to Rationalia. I’ve learned quite a bit from the serious posts on Rationalia (yep… we actually do have them). I use RD net as an information source and nothing more at this time.

Having read some of the back-n-forth on this latest RDF upheaval, I must say that RD’s letter above certainly took some clarity of thought and bravery. It isn’t easy to remove the emotional aspect and reflect on only the facts at hand. Kudos to RD for being able to do so and issuing the letter.

My only last concern is (and forgive me if this was addressed and I missed it); I don’t like to think that this forum and others like it will have a dark cloud cast over them due to the harsh words exchanged. Rationalia and other forums, while offering fun and play, also offer a fantastic opportunity for like-minds come together to create a strong community where information and ideas are exchanged freely. Here, we can also vent about everything from fundies to the mundane every day. That in itself is an invaluable resource in that it helps members learn and grow as individuals and as a group. I hope that Dawkins, and others like him, are able to recognize the value of the OT forums.

I agree, Millie. Well put.

[Alan C]

I'll accept the apology with similar reservations to those already expressed [looking at JT and Chalks]. I'm not feeling any great desire to go back now that I've scouted this asylum and rationalskepticism.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

I've only just come across this as I've been spending most of this afternoon reading through some old threads on RDF (a strange experience). This is a good and welcome development.


I'd ordinaraly comment further, but it's gone three in the morning, and I needs my night-nights.

[RuleBritannia]

Good apology, but rationalia is my home now, the treatment of the mods by Josh and/or Andrew is unforgivable and forthcoming censorship of anything not "relevant to reason and science" goes against everything I believe in.

[epepke]

Though Richard's apology is welcomed, I have to agree with klr and NineBerry in the strongest possible terms. Richard has heaped praise on Josh to almost frightening levels, even dedicating his latest book (which I bought!) to him, on a page which maybe I'll now rip out. Now, I think this level of praise for someone who is, at the end of the day, nothing more than a reasonably skilled web admin, is unhealthy. It seems to me that Richard doesn't quite 'get' it. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I could do what Josh has done with RD.net. It's not rocket science, it's just a busy website. Millions of people (me included) can run these things, and probably millions have the time and inclination to do so, even if Richard himself has neither the skill nor the time. Looks like Josh just 'got there first' with RD.net.

First of all, welcome. I've been doing online atheist stuff since the alt.atheism.moderated days on USENET.

What you said interests me. I am a software developer myself. From reading statements attributed to Timonen and statements about what the moderators have heard, it seems to me that he has Design Fever for some Great Ideas. There is a way of testing my hypothesis. If I am right, then there won't be a new forum, not in a month, nor six months, nor a year. There may appear something like the bare bones of a forum, with some odd user interface elements. It will not scale beyond a few hundred users. It will appear clever and wunderkindey, but it won't even do the technical job.

[Luis Dias]

What you said interests me. I am a software developer myself. From reading statements attributed to Timonen and statements about what the moderators have heard, it seems to me that he has Design Fever for some Great Ideas. There is a way of testing my hypothesis. If I am right, then there won't be a new forum, not in a month, nor six months, nor a year. There may appear something like the bare bones of a forum, with some odd user interface elements. It will not scale beyond a few hundred users. It will appear clever and wunderkindey, but it won't even do the technical job.

Hilarious hypothesis. I would laugh pretty hard :p.

[Occam's Laser]

Though Richard's apology is welcomed, I have to agree with klr and NineBerry in the strongest possible terms. Richard has heaped praise on Josh to almost frightening levels, even dedicating his latest book (which I bought!) to him, on a page which maybe I'll now rip out.

This can't possibly be true.

(checks hardcover copy of The Greatest Show on Earth)

(reads publication and copyright page, facing the table of contents: "For Josh Timonen")

Fuck. It is true.

[anthonzi]

I doubt it will ever be provided, since it doesn't exist. Maybe this would just be too much to come out and admit.

So says Kevin Ronayne, the most unscrupulous and dishonest moderator in history.

You have earned yourself a 24h break from posting. Please refrain from attacking forum members.

I don't see how this ban can be substantiated. Calling someone " unscrupulous and dishonest" could very well be a fact, and does not constitute an attack on someone's personality. I don't understand the history between these two, and perhaps that might have an affect on your judgment, but this kind of flippant banning makes me think twice about whether I want to be here, or that my honest opinions are welcome.

[fuck you & fuck your god]

Though Richard's apology is welcomed, I have to agree with klr and NineBerry in the strongest possible terms. Richard has heaped praise on Josh to almost frightening levels, even dedicating his latest book (which I bought!) to him, on a page which maybe I'll now rip out.

This can't possibly be true.

(checks hardcover copy of The Greatest Show on Earth)

(reads publication and copyright page, facing the table of contents: "For Josh Timonen")

Fuck. It is true.

I couldn't believe when I first heard, first saw when I read Peter Harrison's blog, can't figure out why it hasn't been made more of. I immediately thought and posted somewhere that that did not bode well for this ending positively. You don't dedicate a book at all lightly, Dawkins only has what, 10 books? You still have a lot of family etc, before you start grasping for lessor sorts, so Josh must be very important to him