Religious dietary rules - discussion.

[Azathoth]

This topic has been split from Blackdog's welcome thread because we thought it might be of interest to a wider audience and generate some interesting discussion on the topic of religious, dietary customs.

haha actually i had some vodka rooskie earlier tonight

You really want to be rebellious?



You know you want to try it...

lol what's that stuff in it? looks like something out of a science lab

Forbidden swineflesh. Bacon!

Welcome Blackdog.

The whole food rules thing in the abrahamic religions makes perfect sense to me. Hot climate in a pre refridgeration age. pork/shellfish etc. It doesnt make god angry but you have a very good chance of making yourself very ill.

[BlackDog]

Welcome Blackdog.

The whole food rules thing in the abrahamic religions makes perfect sense to me. Hot climate in a pre refridgeration age. pork/shellfish etc. It doesnt make god angry but you have a very good chance of making yourself very ill.

Thank you

Sure I can see that's the explanation that would work back then. But in today's world, what's wrong with eating shellfish and pork? Especially in light of dietary rules in Islam, which are similar to the rules in Judaism.

In Islam Fish is ok to eat, without halal slaughter, not all types of fish though, I think once with scales are not.

Some say shrimps are ok to eat but crabs or lobsters. Not sure the reasoning of this. Shark and so one are not ok to eat because they are carnivores. Yet in a passage in the Quran you can read all the animals of the sea are ok to eat, that would include sharks, since they eat anything that is already permissible.

Basically it's not even consistent, the rules are arbitrary.

There is also an interesting chapter on the pork regulation in Judaism and Islam in Hitchens' book God is not Great. Have you read the book?

[Elessarina]

[

There is also an interesting chapter on the pork regulation in Judaism and Islam in Hitchens' book God is not Great. Have you read the book?

Why Does God Hate Ham? It's very interesting he touches on how pigs are so close to humans etc..

[BlackDog]

[

There is also an interesting chapter on the pork regulation in Judaism and Islam in Hitchens' book God is not Great. Have you read the book?

Why Does God Hate Ham? It's very interesting he touches on how pigs are so close to humans etc..

The arguments I didn't like was that we look similar to them and that kids are naturally attracted to them, lol not in a sexual way but in a playful manner. A bit strawish me thinks.. What you think? Otherwise a great chapter and I love the title haha

[Elessarina]

The arguments I didn't like was that we look similar to them and that kids are naturally attracted to them, lol not in a sexual way but in a playful manner. A bit strawish me thinks.. What you think? Otherwise a great chapter and I love the title haha

Tbh without some kind of studies into children's behaviour I couldn't be sure but I assume he backs it up with something.. although aren't children just attarcted to all animals?

In terms of flesh colour etc we do look similar to pigs and we're called long pig to cannibals. I don't have a problem with the comparison

[BlackDog]

The arguments I didn't like was that we look similar to them and that kids are naturally attracted to them, lol not in a sexual way but in a playful manner. A bit strawish me thinks.. What you think? Otherwise a great chapter and I love the title haha

Tbh without some kind of studies into children's behaviour I couldn't be sure but I assume he backs it up with something.. although aren't children just attarcted to all animals?

In terms of flesh colour etc we do look similar to pigs and we're called long pig to cannibals. I don't have a problem with the comparison

lol no me neither, well years of indoctrination still makes me shiver but i likes the meat. Long pig because we taste like pig, right?

[Elessarina]

lol no me neither, well years of indoctrination still makes me shiver but i likes the meat. Long pig because we taste like pig, right?

Yes.. we tatse like pork... I thought Hitchens touch on that too didn't he reference firemen not liking pork as the smell reminds them of burning human flesh.. or is that something I have hear elsewhere?

But regardless the whole not eating pigs thing .. well it's just no fun

[BlackDog]

lol no me neither, well years of indoctrination still makes me shiver but i likes the meat. Long pig because we taste like pig, right?

Yes.. we tatse like pork... I thought Hitchens touch on that too didn't he reference firemen not liking pork as the smell reminds them of burning human flesh.. or is that something I have hear elsewhere?

But regardless the whole not eating pigs thing .. well it's just no fun

No that's right I remember that as well. Also the shrieks of pigs. But the best point was the point that I ironically can't fully remember. Something about other cultures also eating pig, because that's how they figured out where the Jews settled, there was absence of pig remains. Meaning, in that same area, other cultures were consuming pork with no problems.

[Elessarina]

No that's right I remember that as well. Also the shrieks of pigs. But the best point was the point that I ironically can't fully remember. Something about other cultures also eating pig, because that's how they figured out where the Jews settled, there was absence of pig remains. Meaning, in that same area, other cultures were consuming pork with no problems.

I'm so glad i have just ordered char sui chow mein

[Elessarina]

Hi there, Blackdog.

Would you mind if we spilt the latter part of this discussion (about food-laws in religion) into the Religion & Atheism section? It is an interesting topic and it might get more responses there.

I would be honored We can discuss the dietary laws of the three Abrahamic religions. I'm keen to learn more about Judaism and Christianity. With any "luck", I might even get to figure out where it all originated from or at least why the rules were created.

Well Judaism has all kinds of dietary laws. I don't think you can have meat and dairy on the same plate or somesuch.. so that rules out a cheese and bacon sandwich or steak and stilton sauce..

I don't even know if there are any in Christianity other than the tradition of eating fish on a Friday..

I'm definitely not a fan of being told what i can and can't eat that's for sure

[BlackDog]

Well Judaism has all kinds of dietary laws. I don't think you can have meat and dairy on the same plate or somesuch.. so that rules out a cheese and bacon sandwich or steak and stilton sauce..

I don't even know if there are any in Christianity other than the tradition of eating fish on a Friday..

I'm definitely not a fan of being told what i can and can't eat that's for sure

Maybe some of the laws were proposed to separate the Jews from others. From what know there were certain things Mo asked his people not to do and things they should do in order to be different from the others people (like for example Jews and Pagan Arabs) living in Medina. I'm not sure how the dietary laws in Islam were created, they are very similar to the Judaic ones in some sense, less extreme. For example the method of slaughter is very similar. Not only how you cut the animals, but that you recite something before you do so.

Maybe there are other reasons, maybe Mo didn't like pork?

Sikhs and Hindus also have dietary laws. Sikhs can eat pork but not beef. And Hindus can not eat beef. I think the Sikh one is a compromise between Islam and Hinduism. Because it makes no sense at all.

A point that has been made, and I haven't reflected enough on it yet to know what I personally think of the matter, is that muslims will demand dietary laws to be followed in schools for example. Like halal slaughtered meat. They do it so they can eat their food, but I feel it's an extreme insult, and I would have thought the same as a muslim to demand that people change to my religion. Of course it would be nice to be able to eat meat and not fish and vegetables all the time, but not at the expense of others. The point that is made is that this is an effective way of separating us from them. I'm not really sure if that the explicit intention, probably not, but inherently it becomes us vs them. How many non-muslims want to eat halal meat? With the Islamic method of slaughter.

Another point that is interesting is that Sikhs can not eat Halal, they have their own method of slaughter.

[statichaos]

My girlfriend (a former ultra-Orthodox Jew who went through a New Age/Occult phase, and has now settled into an agnostic atheism that provides a nice counterpoint to my agnostic theism. She mentioned to me that Muslims near her old neighborhood would occasionally shop at kosher markets since the dietary laws are so similar, but that Orthodox Jews would never shop at halal markets due to the fact that they didn't consider them strict enough.

I'm reasonably familiar with kosher dietary practices through her.

Not only are you not supposed to have meat and dairy on the same plate, you are not allowed to have them in the same meal. Additionally, any plate that has ever been used for meat cannot be used for dairy, and vice versa. The same goes for cooking equipment.

[Elessarina]

Not only are you not supposed to have meat and dairy on the same plate, you are not allowed to have them in the same meal.

Good grief - that's just barbaric!

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Not only are you not supposed to have meat and dairy on the same plate, you are not allowed to have them in the same meal.

Good grief - that's just barbaric!

Jewcat kanz not haz cheezburgah!

[Blitzkrebs]

In Islam Fish is ok to eat, without halal slaughter, not all types of fish though, I think once with scales are not.

Some say shrimps are ok to eat but crabs or lobsters. Not sure the reasoning of this. Shark and so one are not ok to eat because they are carnivores. Yet in a passage in the Quran you can read all the animals of the sea are ok to eat, that would include sharks, since they eat anything that is already permissible.

Basically it's not even consistent, the rules are arbitrary.

As far as Sunni Islam goes, shellfish are forbidden only by the Hanafi school of Islamic law (fiqh in Arabic). Malikis, Shafi'is and Hanbalis have no issue with seafood of any kind.