Agnostic Ex-Muslim here!

[BlackDog]

Hi Guys!

I come from this site:

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index ... tion=forum

Cheetah, a mod there recommended me to visit this forum.

Quick intro; male, in my 20's, ex-muslim, agnostic.

Not much to say except that I'm glad to be here

[charlou]

Hello and welcome. Username is

[goodboyCerberus]

Hello and welcome (even though I'm new too).

I'm interested in your de-conversion process... counter-apologetics, rational arguments, that sort of thing. I don't have a lot of experience with the Koran.

Thank you.

[BlackDog]

Hello and welcome. Username is

Thanks!!

The name comes from a hadith where Mo was scared of a big black dog. I like to think of myself as his worst nightmare A rational (mostly) and clear-thinking (mostly) infidel (always)

[Feck]

Hello and welcome. Username is

Thanks!!

The name comes from a hadith where Mo was scared of a big black dog. I like to think of myself as his worst nightmare A rational (mostly) and clear-thinking (mostly) infidel (always)

OOO we know about black dogs but welcome come on in and have fun.

so Bacon ? yeh or nay ?

Nay is fine BTW there is plenty of cheese

[BlackDog]

Hello and welcome (even though I'm new too).

I'm interested in your de-conversion process... counter-apologetics, rational arguments, that sort of thing. I don't have a lot of experience with the Koran.

Thank you.

Really it's a bunch of things. I don't belief falls with one argument, not even one scripture. For me it was a combination of Quranic criticism and personal issues.

I was pretty devout and in some stages in my life very much so. The personal issues where prayers that were very specific and not materialistic or anything. I needed help through some difficulties and that help never came. In fact the opposite happened, I felt deluded.

Islam can not be learned simply from the Quran, in fact a lot of is not understood unless you complement with the Sira of Muhammed (henceforth known as Mo) which is the biography, the hadiths (collections of sayings and practices by the man and sometimes his companions and wives) and finally the tafisr, the exegesis on the Quran.

I had at moments doubts, but I quelled them with apologetics, especially Jeffery Lang. I was never fully satisfied though because the doubts kept recurring.

My first doubts came in this order:

7-10

There is a story in the Quran about Solmon. I was told he died from termites eating on a chair that he was sitting on and he fell down to his death. I thought it was silly, how can a man die falling from a chair? Well the story in the Quran is that he was already dead, but nobody noticed until a earth creature (termite) nibbled on his staff and he fell of his horse. Or something silly like that. I don't remember the exact details.

We all came from Adam and Eve. How is that even possible? And we came from their sons, two brothers? It was just weird. I was told it's one of those mysteries we can never understand. To me it sounds more like some dark incestuous secret we need to keep in the basement. A ancient Fritz tale if you will. Except this one was taught to kids in broad daylight.

Good Ol' Abe and his murderous intentions. I was horrified at this. And also horrified at the Imam asking us if we had this love and reliance on our parents, to go through with this, to be ready to die at the hands of our father if he asked us to. My question was why? I imagine now, if my dad came with a knife talking some gibberish about God's love and promise I'd lock myself up and call the police.

Right before I apostatized my doubts were about the marriage of Mo to his adopted son's (Zayd) wife (Zaynab). They divorced and Mo married her. I never felt the answer was satisfactory. It seemed like he did it for selfish reasons.

Another even that bothered me because it implied an All-KNowing God not knowing this in advance was the change of qibla (direction of prayer) from Jerusalem to Mecca. When Mo came to Medina he changed the Qibla, I think to appease the Jewish tribes living there. And then he changed it back to Mecca because this is what he wished for. The truth is that he got nowhere with the Jews and claiming to be a prophet and was probably enraged. He had the qibla changed in a divine verse in the Quran. Interesting thing was that the Mecca at the time was still paganized. It still had idols.

So something broke, and with slight trepidation and a lot of excitement I started watching anti-muslims websites. I had many years earlier come across Ali Sina, I was back then in doubt but was more looking for ways to quell my doubt rather to investigate. This time, I had doubts even though I was fervently asking God to keep me close to Him, and to help me with my doubts. I never liked Ali Sina's website, I didn't feel he proved his material using sources and thought he was very arrogant. So I didn't stay more than an hour on his website. The site that did it for me was this blog:

http://abooali.wordpress.com/

And then this site:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19390943/Islam

And I was hooked. I started reading everything I could on Islam.

Later on I moved on to learning about evolution, a video lecture by Jerry Coyne (based on his latest book) got me hooked enough to buy some books. I also started reading about Bible criticism and Historical Jesus. All of it fascinating stuff. A little on history (Guns, Germs and Steel), a little more on different sciences and I decided to call it quits.

[BlackDog]

Hello and welcome. Username is

Thanks!!

The name comes from a hadith where Mo was scared of a big black dog. I like to think of myself as his worst nightmare A rational (mostly) and clear-thinking (mostly) infidel (always)

OOO we know about black dogs but welcome come on in and have fun.

so Bacon ? yeh or nay ?

Nay is fine BTW there is plenty of cheese

haha nice to see that hadith spread

Bacon deffo yeh!

Along with beer and pre-marital sex i think anybody that has been religious, at least the abrahamic faiths knows how relieving that is haha

[statichaos]

Hello and welcome!

Anything you miss about your former beliefs, or is it all just "Oh, good, I don't have to deal with that anymore"?

[Bella Fortuna]

Welcome!

[BlackDog]

Hello and welcome!

Anything you miss about your former beliefs, or is it all just "Oh, good, I don't have to deal with that anymore"?

Thanks

Not really to be honest. I still feel weird about it. And the fear of hell was really indoctrinated in me. Funny thing is that I never thought about hell as a believer, and right after I apostatized I didn't think about it, but a few weeks later it came back. I sometimes think about God though, still trying to figure out my thoughts on that. But religions, no. Absolutely not. Man-made drivel.

[BlackDog]

Welcome!

Yaaaai I can use this icon now

no longer feel its guilty that its a haram icon

[Bella Fortuna]

Welcome!

Yaaaai I can use this icon now

no longer feel its guilty that its a haram icon

Can we move on to then?

[statichaos]

Hello and welcome!

Anything you miss about your former beliefs, or is it all just "Oh, good, I don't have to deal with that anymore"?

Thanks

Not really to be honest. I still feel weird about it. And the fear of hell was really indoctrinated in me. Funny thing is that I never thought about hell as a believer, and right after I apostatized I didn't think about it, but a few weeks later it came back. I sometimes think about God though, still trying to figure out my thoughts on that. But religions, no. Absolutely not. Man-made drivel.

Understood. Hey, I was raised in an agnostic household, and I still picked up a fear of hell somewhere. That's a tough one to get over.

[BlackDog]

Welcome!

Yaaaai I can use this icon now

no longer feel its guilty that its a haram icon

Can we move on to then?

haha actually i had some vodka rooskie earlier tonight

[BlackDog]

Hello and welcome!

Anything you miss about your former beliefs, or is it all just "Oh, good, I don't have to deal with that anymore"?

Thanks

Not really to be honest. I still feel weird about it. And the fear of hell was really indoctrinated in me. Funny thing is that I never thought about hell as a believer, and right after I apostatized I didn't think about it, but a few weeks later it came back. I sometimes think about God though, still trying to figure out my thoughts on that. But religions, no. Absolutely not. Man-made drivel.

Understood. Hey, I was raised in an agnostic household, and I still picked up a fear of hell somewhere. That's a tough one to get over.

Wow that's incredible. How is that even possible though? Hell has to be the worst inventions ever, worse than the Medieval chastity belt. I wanna study more on its origins. Hell, not the belt