Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:45 pm

trubble76 wrote:
Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?
I read this as "Are all US Congressmen, and women, just flaming hypocrites"

I was going to admonish you by pointing out that out of 3bn women, there has to be some non-hypocrites :biggrin:

j/k folks, i love women, i mean i love to love women, i mean can i love any women? :flowers:
Point of grammar -- I think that mine was correct, or at worst it should have been worded "Are all Congressmen and Congresswomen just flaming hypocrites?"

With your added commas, I think that your suggestion that it refers to all women still remains.

But, some grammar cop will be able to explain the rule, I think. Anyone qualified?

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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by trubble76 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:52 pm

Oh i wasn't questioning the grammar, just flippantly noting how i read it first time around. Just a throw-away comment :tea:
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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by eXcommunicate » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:24 pm

Actually, reconciliation is not really a "long standing process." It was first used solely for budget measures and solely budget measures that would REDUCE the deficit. After 1996 (a mere 14 years ago) the usage was expanded to any budgetary measure. Overhauling the health care system is not a budgetary measure.
According to the information we have from the CBO, the HC bill does reduce the deficit. You may not think it will. Republicans may not think it will. But the fact is the CBO, which is the official government body for determining these things, says the bill will reduce the deficit by $100B. The only reason Republicans are taking the reconciliation threat seriously is because they know it will work.
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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:08 pm

eXcommunicate wrote:
Actually, reconciliation is not really a "long standing process." It was first used solely for budget measures and solely budget measures that would REDUCE the deficit. After 1996 (a mere 14 years ago) the usage was expanded to any budgetary measure. Overhauling the health care system is not a budgetary measure.
According to the information we have from the CBO, the HC bill does reduce the deficit. You may not think it will. Republicans may not think it will. But the fact is the CBO, which is the official government body for determining these things, says the bill will reduce the deficit by $100B. The only reason Republicans are taking the reconciliation threat seriously is because they know it will work.
It's not a budget bill though. It's a health care bill. Many bills arguably will reduce the deficit, but that doesn't make them a budget bill.

I highly doubt it will reduce the deficit, and I can't see how any thinking person could (Republican or Democrat), since the CBO has to take into account the "assumptions" made by the legislators. In that sense it's junk in, junk out. But, whether or not it wil reduce the deficit is not the point and never was. It's a health insurance reform bill, not a budgetary measure.

But, I think your wrong about what the CBO has said about the new plan anyway. I believe on 2/22 the CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf said that there was not enough detail in the proposal released by the White House to produce a cost analysis. He said, “[Yesterday] morning the Obama Administration released a description of its health care proposal, and CBO has already received several requests to provide a cost estimate for that proposal,” Elmendorf said. “We had not previously received the proposal, and we have just begun the process of reviewing it -- a process that will take some time, given the complexity of the issues involved. Although the proposal reflects many elements that were included in the health care bills passed by the House and the Senate last year, it modifies many of those elements and also includes new ones. Moreover, preparing a cost estimate requires very detailed specifications of numerous provisions, and the materials that were released [yesterday] morning do not provide sufficient detail on all of the provisions. Therefore, CBO cannot provide a cost estimate for the proposal without additional detail, and, even if such detail were provided, analyzing the proposal would be a time-consuming process that could not be completed this week.” http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=473

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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by MattHunX » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:06 am

*gasp* What a surprise. :yawn:

"Welcome to the real world"

I could ask if you all regret "taking the blue pill", but we all know those who went with the red one (willingly or otherwise).
Once he ruled all his lands with a firm iron hand,
Not a queen by his side never knew the reason why
At the end of the tale I now finally see
That the Tragic King is me

All alone on my throne once held powers so strong
Searched for wisdom of Gods and the will to carry on
In my eyes you can see peaceful rest finally
Behold King of Tragedy

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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by eXcommunicate » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:19 am

Coito ergo sum wrote:
eXcommunicate wrote:
Actually, reconciliation is not really a "long standing process." It was first used solely for budget measures and solely budget measures that would REDUCE the deficit. After 1996 (a mere 14 years ago) the usage was expanded to any budgetary measure. Overhauling the health care system is not a budgetary measure.
According to the information we have from the CBO, the HC bill does reduce the deficit. You may not think it will. Republicans may not think it will. But the fact is the CBO, which is the official government body for determining these things, says the bill will reduce the deficit by $100B. The only reason Republicans are taking the reconciliation threat seriously is because they know it will work.
It's not a budget bill though. It's a health care bill. Many bills arguably will reduce the deficit, but that doesn't make them a budget bill.

I highly doubt it will reduce the deficit, and I can't see how any thinking person could (Republican or Democrat), since the CBO has to take into account the "assumptions" made by the legislators. In that sense it's junk in, junk out. But, whether or not it wil reduce the deficit is not the point and never was. It's a health insurance reform bill, not a budgetary measure.

But, I think your wrong about what the CBO has said about the new plan anyway. I believe on 2/22 the CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf said that there was not enough detail in the proposal released by the White House to produce a cost analysis. He said, “[Yesterday] morning the Obama Administration released a description of its health care proposal, and CBO has already received several requests to provide a cost estimate for that proposal,” Elmendorf said. “We had not previously received the proposal, and we have just begun the process of reviewing it -- a process that will take some time, given the complexity of the issues involved. Although the proposal reflects many elements that were included in the health care bills passed by the House and the Senate last year, it modifies many of those elements and also includes new ones. Moreover, preparing a cost estimate requires very detailed specifications of numerous provisions, and the materials that were released [yesterday] morning do not provide sufficient detail on all of the provisions. Therefore, CBO cannot provide a cost estimate for the proposal without additional detail, and, even if such detail were provided, analyzing the proposal would be a time-consuming process that could not be completed this week.” http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=473
Elmendorf is hedging his bets. I have not read it yet, but everything I read says Obama's "new" bill is nothing but a few tweaks on the Senate bill.

About reconciliation: all the bill has to do to qualify for reconciliation is for it to have a sunset clause (in addition to having budgetary matters involved; that's why the Bush tax cuts are sunsetting). Reid knows he can do this. McConnell knows he can do this. That's why the Republicans aren't saying it's against the rules, they are bitching about it being a "nuclear" option (another bs talking point), trying to hammer the Dems on reneging on "bipartisanship."
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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:18 pm

eXcommunicate wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
eXcommunicate wrote:
Actually, reconciliation is not really a "long standing process." It was first used solely for budget measures and solely budget measures that would REDUCE the deficit. After 1996 (a mere 14 years ago) the usage was expanded to any budgetary measure. Overhauling the health care system is not a budgetary measure.
According to the information we have from the CBO, the HC bill does reduce the deficit. You may not think it will. Republicans may not think it will. But the fact is the CBO, which is the official government body for determining these things, says the bill will reduce the deficit by $100B. The only reason Republicans are taking the reconciliation threat seriously is because they know it will work.
It's not a budget bill though. It's a health care bill. Many bills arguably will reduce the deficit, but that doesn't make them a budget bill.

I highly doubt it will reduce the deficit, and I can't see how any thinking person could (Republican or Democrat), since the CBO has to take into account the "assumptions" made by the legislators. In that sense it's junk in, junk out. But, whether or not it wil reduce the deficit is not the point and never was. It's a health insurance reform bill, not a budgetary measure.

But, I think your wrong about what the CBO has said about the new plan anyway. I believe on 2/22 the CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf said that there was not enough detail in the proposal released by the White House to produce a cost analysis. He said, “[Yesterday] morning the Obama Administration released a description of its health care proposal, and CBO has already received several requests to provide a cost estimate for that proposal,” Elmendorf said. “We had not previously received the proposal, and we have just begun the process of reviewing it -- a process that will take some time, given the complexity of the issues involved. Although the proposal reflects many elements that were included in the health care bills passed by the House and the Senate last year, it modifies many of those elements and also includes new ones. Moreover, preparing a cost estimate requires very detailed specifications of numerous provisions, and the materials that were released [yesterday] morning do not provide sufficient detail on all of the provisions. Therefore, CBO cannot provide a cost estimate for the proposal without additional detail, and, even if such detail were provided, analyzing the proposal would be a time-consuming process that could not be completed this week.” http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=473
Elmendorf is hedging his bets. I have not read it yet, but everything I read says Obama's "new" bill is nothing but a few tweaks on the Senate bill.
Which the White House "claimed" would reduce the deficit after they made some "adjustments," like removing the doctor fix from the health care bill and putting in its own bill that was not part of what the CBO reviewed. Further, they make all sorts of assumptions on how much money would be "saved" by some of their measures, and nobody really thinks they can meet those savings goals.

It's been my contention that if, like Obama says, there is $X billion that will be saved by eliminating fraud - why don't we start with that as stage 1. Let's implement the fraud elimination policies and practices now, save that $X billion. Why wait? I can tell you why. Because it's bullshit. If they can save $X billion by eliminating fraud they would do it. If they can, and they aren't doing it, then that's a huge dereliction of duty and they all should be ashamed.
Fact-Man wrote:
About reconciliation: all the bill has to do to qualify for reconciliation is for it to have a sunset clause (in addition to having budgetary matters involved; that's why the Bush tax cuts are sunsetting). Reid knows he can do this. McConnell knows he can do this. That's why the Republicans aren't saying it's against the rules, they are bitching about it being a "nuclear" option (another bs talking point), trying to hammer the Dems on reneging on "bipartisanship."
Well, as I said on the top of this thread. I wasn't attacking just one party. I think they are all hypocrites. I doubt I have been more disgusted with them all.

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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by Randydeluxe » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:57 pm

This clip doesn't seem like it's really going anywhere at first, but stick with it. Trust me:


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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by drl2 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:02 pm

A little more on the reconciliation vs "nuclear option" controversy:

http://embed.crooksandliars.com/v/MTE5N ... lor=173466
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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites?

Post by eXcommunicate » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:15 pm

Randydeluxe wrote:This clip doesn't seem like it's really going anywhere at first, but stick with it. Trust me:

HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! A+++ Would watch again! Weiner has one-upped Alan Grayson in my book. :tup:
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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:01 pm

One-upped him in terms of being a total douche?


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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites

Post by eXcommunicate » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:52 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:One-upped him in terms of being a total douche?
Trying to save your ass from a fuck up isn't exactly hypocritical. I don't think Weiner ever campaigned on being a perfect white washed gentleman fighting to restore Christian morality to the nation.
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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:33 pm

eXcommunicate wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:One-upped him in terms of being a total douche?
Trying to save your ass from a fuck up isn't exactly hypocritical. I don't think Weiner ever campaigned on being a perfect white washed gentleman fighting to restore Christian morality to the nation.
Who called him a hypocritical? And, who is talking perfection? Is the standard of imperfection to be having such poor judgment that one has on-line sexting sessions with college girls as a sitting Congressman, probably using the public's computers and office space to do it?

He's a douche. And, so is Grayson. Histrionics and vulgar tirades do not statesmen make.

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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites

Post by eXcommunicate » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:49 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
eXcommunicate wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:One-upped him in terms of being a total douche?
Trying to save your ass from a fuck up isn't exactly hypocritical. I don't think Weiner ever campaigned on being a perfect white washed gentleman fighting to restore Christian morality to the nation.
Who called him a hypocritical?
I don't know... the title of your thread.
He's a douche. And, so is Grayson. Histrionics and vulgar tirades do not statesmen make.
I don't expect every single Congress person to be a "statesman." That's just me.

Sort of related:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... -at-age-43
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Re: Are all US Congressmen and women just flaming hypocrites

Post by laklak » Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:59 pm

Ooooo - a 100 BILLION reduction! (Cue Dr. Evil)

That's like me saying to Mrs. Lak, now baby, I was going to buy a new Jag XKR but instead I'm going to buy a Corvette. That's a deficit reduction of almost $30,000! Hell, we'll only be on the hook for $50Gs.

We're still talking about an annual deficit in excess of one trillion dollars. Talk about fixing an amputation with a Band-Aid.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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