My question is this: Are Tolstoy's four categories of people accurate, in your experience? If not, why not? If so, which of the four categories describes you most closely? I'm most closely a "four", but without the pessimism or the belief that death is actually better than life; they're about the same, I'd say.This is what I found in people who were in the same position as myself through their education and manner of life.
I found that for people of my circle there were four ways out from the terrible condition in which we all are.
The first way is through ignorance. It consists in not knowing, not understanding that life is evil and meaningless. People of this category - mostly women or very young or very dull persons - have not yet come to understand that question of life which presented itself to Schopenhauer, Solomon, and Buddha...
The second way out is through Epicureanism. It consists in this, that, knowing the hopelessness of life, one should in the meantime enjoy such good as there is...The dullness of the imagination of these people makes it possible for them to forget that which gave no rest to Buddha, - the inevitableness of sickness, old age, and death, which sooner or later will destroy all those pleasures...Thus think and feel the majority of mean of our time and our manner of life...Such people I could not imitate...
The third way out is through force and energy. It consists in this, that, having comprehended that life is evil and meaningless, one should set out to destroy it. Thus now and then act strong, consistent people. Having comprehended all the good of the dead is better than that of the living, and that it is better not to be at all, they go and carry this out and at once put an end to that stupid joke, so long as there are means for it: a noose about the neck, the water, a knife to pierce the heart with, railway trains...I saw that that was the worthiest way out, and I wanted to act in that way...
The fourth way out is through weakness. It consists in this, that, comprehending the evil and the meaninglessness of life, one continues to drag it out, knowing in advance that nothing can come of it. People of this calibre know that death is better than life, but, not having the strength to act reasonably, to make an end to the deception, and to kill themselves, they seem to be waiting for something. This is the way of weakness...
[Then a long metaphor about being set adrift in a raft on a river and finding the will to steer to the far shore]
That shore was God, the direction was tradition, the oars were the freedom given me to row toward that shore, - to unite myself with God. Thus the force of life was renewed in me, and I began to live once more.
Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
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Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Tolstoy wrote this to explain his conscious choice to believe in God. To paraphrase the early part, he reached a point where he didn't believe in God anymore and was near suicide from a deep existential despair over the apparent meaninglessness of life:
I enabled you to choose two options in case you find yourself to be a mix, but if so, please explain.
Last edited by FBM on Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Apart from the apparent 'dullness of the imagination' (I disagree entirely, I'm creative and imaginative by nature), that's about right.The second way out is through Epicureanism. It consists in this, that, knowing the hopelessness of life, one should in the meantime enjoy such good as there is...The dullness of the imagination of these people makes it possible for them to forget that which gave no rest to BUddha, - the inevitableness of sickness, old age, and death, which sooner or later will destroy all those pleasures...Thus think and feel the majority of mean of our time and our manner of life...Such people I could not imitate...
Hedonism ftw.

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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
I suspect you may not be alone there, Red.
I engage in Hedonistic/Epicurean behavior mostly because there's not much else to do. Sure, I read philosophy and think about shit most of the time, but with no particular purpose in mind. Collecting money and things has never appealed to me as a reason for living and suicide just seems a priori to be the wrong response, perhaps mainly because it's an irreversible act and those should only be made under the most extreme circumstances. The lack of an objective meaning to life is both liberating and somewhat boring.
I engage in Hedonistic/Epicurean behavior mostly because there's not much else to do. Sure, I read philosophy and think about shit most of the time, but with no particular purpose in mind. Collecting money and things has never appealed to me as a reason for living and suicide just seems a priori to be the wrong response, perhaps mainly because it's an irreversible act and those should only be made under the most extreme circumstances. The lack of an objective meaning to life is both liberating and somewhat boring.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Sorry FBM i was doing a search for tolstoy and i dug this thread up.
I love this quote it actually its going in my favourite quotations bit on facebook
That shore was God, the direction was tradition, the oars were the freedom given me to row toward that shore, - to unite myself with God. Thus the force of life was renewed in me, and I began to live once more. - Explains it perfectly.
I love this quote it actually its going in my favourite quotations bit on facebook
That shore was God, the direction was tradition, the oars were the freedom given me to row toward that shore, - to unite myself with God. Thus the force of life was renewed in me, and I began to live once more. - Explains it perfectly.
The Pope was today knocked down at the start of Christmas mass by a woman who hopped over the barriers. The woman was said to be, "Mentally unstable."Trolldor wrote:Ahh cardinal Pell. He's like a monkey after a lobotomy and three lines of cocaine.
Which is probably why she went unnoticed among a crowd of Christians.
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Did you find gawd?
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Do whut now?
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
I thought it was a well established fact that i'am a theist.rEvolutionist wrote:Did you find gawd?
The Pope was today knocked down at the start of Christmas mass by a woman who hopped over the barriers. The woman was said to be, "Mentally unstable."Trolldor wrote:Ahh cardinal Pell. He's like a monkey after a lobotomy and three lines of cocaine.
Which is probably why she went unnoticed among a crowd of Christians.
Cormac wrote: One thing of which I am certain. The world is a better place with you in it. Stick around please. The universe will eventually get around to offing all of us. No need to help it in its efforts...
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
No, one cannot describe something as meaningless and evil, so right away he's working under an erroneous assumption.
Also part of the success of our environmental adaptation has been due to our hedonic. Let's face it if we didn't enjoy orgasm and intoxication so much we would have died out long before the event of the Miserablists.
He typically misses out, like most of his peers and contemporaries, the idea created meaning (ironic that an author had not the wits to realise that) of genetic longevity, that we can, but don't, choose to consider ourselves stepping stones for the future of our species. He misses the idea that life itself is something wonderful, novel in a radioactive hell void of entropic processes.
He lacks imagination.
Still
Also part of the success of our environmental adaptation has been due to our hedonic. Let's face it if we didn't enjoy orgasm and intoxication so much we would have died out long before the event of the Miserablists.
He typically misses out, like most of his peers and contemporaries, the idea created meaning (ironic that an author had not the wits to realise that) of genetic longevity, that we can, but don't, choose to consider ourselves stepping stones for the future of our species. He misses the idea that life itself is something wonderful, novel in a radioactive hell void of entropic processes.
He lacks imagination.
Still
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
I suspect I would be categorised under 'One', for I do not understand that "life is evil and meaningless", - but I would be reluctant to admit that it was due to ignorance, because that is what I used to believe, before I found a deeper understanding. Of course it could be argued that that is simply wilful self-delusion on my part, and I have nothing with which to counter that, for it only comes from my experience.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Tbh, the whole thing is predicated on the assumption of free will, which is almost certainly an illusion, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Disagree... Life is without meaning and evil, if it weren't, lots of innocent people would be alive and in good health, or dead after long and happy lives. Shit happens, and not only through the evil humans do (just thing of true accidents, natural catastrophes, or dying of cancer before hitting 40). I fully understand Leo's PoV.Audley Strange wrote:No, one cannot describe something as meaningless and evil, so right away he's working under an erroneous assumption.
Also part of the success of our environmental adaptation has been due to our hedonic. Let's face it if we didn't enjoy orgasm and intoxication so much we would have died out long before the event of the Miserablists.
He typically misses out, like most of his peers and contemporaries, the idea created meaning (ironic that an author had not the wits to realise that) of genetic longevity, that we can, but don't, choose to consider ourselves stepping stones for the future of our species. He misses the idea that life itself is something wonderful, novel in a radioactive hell void of entropic processes.
He lacks imagination.
Still
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug
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PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Nobody expects me...
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
That was unexpected
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
[/quote]Svartalf wrote: Disagree... Life is without meaning and evil, if it weren't, lots of innocent people would be alive and in good health, or dead after long and happy lives. Shit happens, and not only through the evil humans do (just thing of true accidents, natural catastrophes, or dying of cancer before hitting 40). I fully understand Leo's PoV.
How can something be meaningless and then be described as evil (which implies meaning and direction). Hostile to life, certainly, in fact I made that very point, but evil? Nah that clearly suggests meaning and is only defined by it's opposite concept of good. I don't think you do disagree tbh, unless you also think life is without meaning and good.
I also get what he's trying to say, but that he didn't say it clearly suggests to me rather than an attempt at an objective (which is impossible yes) he had reached the stage that the Christian mystics described as the "long dark night of the soul." As Red pointed out, Leo made it though by supplanting Nihilism with theophilia.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man
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Re: Tolstoy's "My Confession": Where do you fit in?
Evil doesn't need purpose. Human evil is purposed, or a byproduct of "greater" purposes. Nature is mindless and purposeless, it can nonetheless do untold evil.
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PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping
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