klr wrote:Well, it helps if the attackers are well-trained and use good aircraft ... or in the case of the Bismarck, rickety old bi-planes so slow that the AA gunners just can't bring themselves to allow sufficient deflection.
Bloody fun fair, that!
And even when they did register hits, more often than not the shells just went straight through the fabric. "Bloody draughty" was the comment of one Swordfish observer who spent a couple of hours on the return leg seated right above a big hole in the bottom of the fuselage.
Handy as a poop chute, though, wasn't it?
Being a typical understated Brit, what he meant was "Jesus, I nearly froze my balls off there!"
BTW, the final torpedo attack on Bismarck took place in absolutely appalling weather, with mountainous waves and gale-force winds during take-off and landing.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson
klr wrote:Being a typical understated Brit, what he meant was "Jesus, I nearly froze my balls off there!"
BTW, the final torpedo attack on Bismarck took place in absolutely appalling weather, with mountainous waves and gale-force winds during take-off and landing.
I remember one aimer saying he had to time the release so the torp landed in a trough so it wouldn't sky off going through a crest.
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
klr wrote:Being a typical understated Brit, what he meant was "Jesus, I nearly froze my balls off there!"
BTW, the final torpedo attack on Bismarck took place in absolutely appalling weather, with mountainous waves and gale-force winds during take-off and landing.
I remember one aimer saying he had to time the release so the torp landed in a trough so it wouldn't sky off going through a crest.
That sounds about right. Of course, they had earlier attacked HMS Sheffield in error, but it was a blessing in disguise, seeing as it made them realise that magnetic detonators were far too unreliable in those conditions. Half the torpedoes blew up prematurely, and Sheffield avoided the rest. For the final attack, they used contact detonators.
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson
Given the ever rising costs, the two new Queen Elizabeth class carriers being built for the RN (if they ever are built) will probably have biplanes on them....
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
Clinton Huxley wrote:Given the ever rising costs, the two new Queen Elizabeth class carriers being built for the RN (if they ever are built) will probably have biplanes on them....
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
Clinton Huxley wrote:Given the ever rising costs, the two new Queen Elizabeth class carriers being built for the RN (if they ever are built) will probably have biplanes on them....
I believe they've gone too far already for the UK to back out - it would be too costly. It's merely a question now of the final ship configuration, and the air group. Bring back the Fairey Flycatcher!
Gawdzilla wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:Hmmmm....an all new class of balloon carrier? I approve.
Does England have enough politicians to get them all aloft at once?
They certainly generate enough hot air ...
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson
Clinton Huxley wrote:Given the ever rising costs, the two new Queen Elizabeth class carriers being built for the RN (if they ever are built) will probably have biplanes on them....
I believe they've gone too far already for the UK to back out - it would be too costly. It's merely a question now of the final ship configuration, and the air group. Bring back the Fairey Flycatcher!
I've heard all kinds of options:-
1) Continue with the build as is
2) Share one with the French (over my dead body)
3) Complete both but then sell one to India
4) Only outfit one with fast jets, the other to be configured as a helicopter carrier / assault ship type thing
5) Call them "through deck crusiers" and hope the Accounts Committee doesn't notice (worked for the previous carriers).
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"
Clinton Huxley wrote:Given the ever rising costs, the two new Queen Elizabeth class carriers being built for the RN (if they ever are built) will probably have biplanes on them....
I believe they've gone too far already for the UK to back out - it would be too costly. It's merely a question now of the final ship configuration, and the air group. Bring back the Fairey Flycatcher!
I've heard all kinds of options:-
1) Continue with the build as is
2) Share one with the French (over my dead body)
3) Complete both but then sell one to India 4) Only outfit one with fast jets, the other to be configured as a helicopter carrier / assault ship type thing
5) Call them "through deck crusiers" and hope the Accounts Committee doesn't notice (worked for the previous carriers).
I suspect that this will come to pass in some shape or form. As for the aircraft ... who knows?
Through-deck cruisers ... how did they ever let that one past them?
God has no place within these walls, just like facts have no place within organized religion. - Superintendent Chalmers
It's not up to us to choose which laws we want to obey. If it were, I'd kill everyone who looked at me cock-eyed! - Rex Banner
The Bluebird of Happiness long absent from his life, Ned is visited by the Chicken of Depression. - Gary Larson
This has been more "interesting" a technical challenge than I had hoped for. Should be ready later today or in the morrow.
Trigger Warning!!!1! :
BATTLE DAMAGE TO SURFACE SHIPS DURING WORLD WAR II
(BOEVYE POYREZHDENUA NADOVDNYKH KORABLEI)
by
Im M. Korotkin
Leningrad, Sudpromgiz, 1960
Translated by U. S. Joint Publications Research Service for the David Taylor Model Basin
February 1964
Translation 310
S-F013 04 03
Task 1759
SUMMARY
Data on battle damage to foreign surface ships of the basic classes during World War II are systematized and generalized in this book. One chapter is devoted to a description of the effects of aerial and underwater atomic explosions on ships (based on tests at Bikini Atoll).
Basic conclusions are drawn on the effectiveness of attack by different types of weapons on the structural integrity of warships and the significance of damage control measures. The appendixes list well-known cases of losses of foreign aircraft carriers, battleships, and cruisers.
This book is intended for shipbuilders in general, for personnel of VMF [Voyenno-Morskoy Flot — Navy], and for use in related training establishments.
[ii]
FOREWORD
This translation has been undertaken to make available in English an overall survey and analysis of naval surface ship losses in World War II. It is believed that the translation will be useful as an abbreviated compendium of important cases of damage and loss. (The book does not discuss either damage to Russian snips or Russian trends in warship design.)
The general ideas on causes of damage are worthy of consideration. The book brings out by numerous examples the need for carefully planned protection and damage-control features of all types if ships are to survive attacks or to continue their mission. Specialists in ship protection may profit more from the description of wartime experience and system weaknesses than from the general methods described for overcoming the weaknesses.
No attempt has been made to verify the facts reported in the original.
This translation was edited by Dr. W.J. Sette and Mrs. Anastasia L. Cook of the staff of the David Taylor Model Basin.
[iii]
PREFACE
One of the most important research methods on the survivability of ships is to study their behavior under wartime conditions in the presence of significant damage. The first serious review of the circumstances and causes of battle damage to ships from the point of view of survivability was made by Admiral S.O. Makarov, who devoted many years to this research; it has been continued by Academician A. N. Krylov.
Attaching great significance to the necessity of studying ship damage, A.N. Krylov wrote in his book "Some Cases of Shipwrecks and Ship Losses" (Nekotoryye sluchai avariy i gibeli sudov): "A description of wrecks that have occurred, a critical review of their causes, and full and honest information about them may contribute to averting wrecks or, at least, contribute to eliminating the repetition of wrecks which have occurred before."
The outstanding work of N. N. Kuteynikov and individual works of other authors have been devoted to an analysis of battle damage and survival of ships from experiences in the Russo-Japanese War. An anglo-gous research on ship battle damage in World War I was made by K. P. Puzyrevskiy. V. P. Kostenko, L.A. Gordon, N.Ya. Mal'tsev, and others performed a great work On the analysis of battle damage and survivability of individual foreign ships during the period of World War II. However, up to the present time, a sufficiently complete and systematized examination of battle damage from experiences of World War II has##vote not been published. This book is the first attempt to fill this lack.
The author has set as his goal the systematizing and generalizing of experiences of World War II in relation to the survivability (watertight integrity and battle endurance, explosion and fire protection, durability of weapons and technical equipment) of surface ships of the principal capitalist nations against the effects of various kinds of modern weapons. The fundamental results of atomic explosion tests cited in this book permit the reader to familiarize himself with the character of damage to ships due to attack by atomic weapons.
The extent and character of ship damage, structural guarantees of survival, and also the actions of personnel in damage control and ship repair under battle conditions are analyzed in specific examples.
This book examines 102 cases of damage and losses of surface ships of the four basic classes: aircraft carriers, battleships, cruisers, and destroyers, and embraces practically the entire range of displacements (from 1000 to 70,000 tons) and all the various architectural types of surface ships of World War II.
The effects of torpedo explosions, mine explosions, and bomb bursts upon ships are analyzed and also the simultaneous effects of projectiles. In addition, some characteristic cases of the employment of Japanese kamikaze aircraft are considered. The use of guns is treated in the book only in terms of the simultaneous effects of shells with other forms of weapons which have been more characteristic of[vi]World War II, especially in cases of damage to battleships and cruisers. Attack solely by shells is not typical of modern warfare at sea; moreover, extremely small amounts of authentic and realistic data have been published. For this reason, the effect of guns is not specially considered in this publication.
This book contains information on a considerably greater number of damaged ships than that indicated in Table 1 because the analysis of damage in individual cases includes damage to several ships. In addition, damage information concerning a great number of ships is reduced to abbreviated form.##
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”
