Comics / Graphic Novels

[Jadestone]

When I hear 'comics,' I think of the 4-panel single-strip jokes you get in the newspaper, whereas the term 'graphic novel' to me implies an actual story with comic-style illustrations (though more freedom of panel types, shapes, ect). Comic books to me either make me think of the action-superhero kind (Spiderman, the Hulk, though I also kind of think of these when hearing graphic novels) or collections of newspaper comic strips. I don't really think of it as a way to separate children/adult... levels? Not the word I'm looking for but school is over and I'm taking a break from thinking for a few days.


I just re-checked out the first volume of The Absolute Sandman (4 volumes contain all the individual stories, with new coloring and some extra pictures, and it's black and huge and so pretty) and am re-reading it. There's a lot of stuff I'm picking up that comes into play later in the series you never would notice! It's like reading a new story almost. My best friend has the library's other three volumes at the moment (I am making her read them so I can talk about them with someone) so once I finish this I'll have to wait for the next.

I also picked up a copy of Swamp Thing, by the same author of Watchmen. Have not started it yet.

[AshtonBlack]

Ashton,

I was interested in this answer.

5) No, graphic novels, IMHO, are not aimed at children, therefore a differentiator is required.

Would you call the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers graphic novels in that case? They clearly aren't aimed at children?
Also, books such as Tintin and Asterix, along with comic adaptations of children's literature classics, are now frequently referred to as "Children's Graphic Novels".

Just as we refer to adult and children's literature, fiction, text-books, etc. We should say adult and children's comics IMO. 'Graphic Novel' is a somewhat pretentious term used by those that don't want to admit to still liking comics at their age and wish to claim some kind of extra literary credentials for their picture book. I don't read a lot of them but when I do, I call them comics.

There is a huge amount of prejudice against comics in bookish circles. Once a story has pictures attached, it is seen by the snobbish as being inferior. I don't see this as being the case at all. Watchmen, or The Sandman, for example, are dense, thoughtful stories that tell us far more about ourselves than some bollocks by Maeve Binchey or James Patterson. Just as there are great works of literature in the form of plays (including screenplays) or epic poetry, there are great works of literature with pictures.

On your first point, I will concede that there is a certain pretentiousness surrounding the term "Graphic Novels". But, I for one, feel no embarrassment when admitting, reading either comics or GNs.
In a comic book store, the lines are blurred between the two, but in somewhere like Waterstones or a large WH Smiths, the "comics" section is in the children's area and GN's usually on the bottom shelf of the Sci-fi and Fantasy section.

As I mentioned, all art is subjective, and I couldn't agree with you more!

[ebeth]

Do you like comics? yup

Did you read them as a kid? yes

Do you still? well technically i'm still a kid, so yeah

What are/were your favourite books / authors / artists? alan moore is a god. (v for vendetta, watchmen, all those classics) i also love neil gaiman and jeff smith (sandman and bone, respectively)

Do you think that they are inferior/superior/of equal status to written literature? they're different. they bring a different kind of depth to written literature, but they're also limited in some ways. i think it really depends on the books you're comparing.

Do you think that the term 'Graphic Novel' is a cop-out term used by adults that are worried that others see comics as childish but still love them? graphic novels are different from comics. when i hear "comics" i think calvin and hobbes, get fuzzy, xkcd, the stuff you see in the newspaper or online. graphic novels are much more complex, and i think they deserve the name.

Why are film adaptations of comics (with a few exceptions) so naff? what does naff mean? bad? good? i think film adaptations are best when they follow the storyline closely. There's no excuse not to, in a graphic novel, just use the book as a storyboard for the movie. i think the main concern is length, and that's a shame because if you're not willing to sit through a longer movie to adequately tell the story, you're clearly not going to fully appreciate the complexity of graphic novels anyway, so fuck you

What is more important, the story or the artwork?
well, if you ignore the artwork, you miss out on a lot of the story. but the story is definitely important. i'm really not sure i guess they just play off each other

i ♥ graphic novels. need to read more

[camoguard]

* Do you like comics? Yep
* Did you read them as a kid? Yep
* Do you still? Occasionally
* What are/were your favourite books / authors / artists?
Spiderman... all 4 at the time Web Of..., Amazing..., Spectacular ..., and just Spiderman. I liked Darkhawk and Sleep Walker and the gimmicky cross over annuals. The Infinity Gauntlet crossover was nice.
* Do you think that they are inferior/superior/of equal status to written literature?
Equal. Didn't Spawn win an award for Neil Gaiman's work?
* Do you think that the term 'Graphic Novel' is a cop-out term used by adults that are worried that others see comics as childish but still love them?
No, a graphic novel has a slightly different narration style.
* Why are film adaptations of comics (with a few exceptions) so naff?
Because the heart of a comic is the mix of action, romance, campiness or whatever and movies often focus on just one angle.
* What is more important, the story or the artwork?
Tempo or panel flow. The most important thing is that sense of what speed to turn the pages. Comic books that take too long are boring. But I liked Erik Larson's art, so it's possible the answer between the provided options is the story.

[War Arrow]

Not convinced by Sandman I'm afraid - Gaiman has this habit of doing a subtle spin on what someone else already did and making it appear like his own and though he's had his moments (Miracleman after Alan Moore jacked it in) I just find him too contrived somehow. He tries too hard to push the right buttons - little bit of black lace, throw in some Shakespeare, snappy reference to some 18th century dude no other fucker cares about...

Grant Morrison has come out with some utter shite but I'd have that man's babies on the strength of Doom Patrol - The Painting that Ate Paris, the story where Flex Mentallo turns the Pentagon circular with the power of 'muscle mystery'.... just brilliant.

[camoguard]

I think Gaiman was rightly more suited for novels. I've liked those much better.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Not convinced by Sandman I'm afraid - Gaiman has this habit of doing a subtle spin on what someone else already did and making it appear like his own and though he's had his moments (Miracleman after Alan Moore jacked it in) I just find him too contrived somehow. He tries too hard to push the right buttons - little bit of black lace, throw in some Shakespeare, snappy reference to some 18th century dude no other fucker cares about...

Grant Morrison has come out with some utter shite but I'd have that man's babies on the strength of Doom Patrol - The Painting that Ate Paris, the story where Flex Mentallo turns the Pentagon circular with the power of 'muscle mystery'.... just brilliant.

Did you read all of Sandman? I think the best thing about it is the tying up of so many disparate threads in the last two parts - not exactly a unique thing in writing but the narrative in most comics tends to be a lot more linear. I still wonder whether he knew where it was going from the start and left little loose-ends deliberately, or whether he decided on the end later and worked backwards to include themes and characters from the earlier, apparently self-contained stories. Either way, it was masterfully done.

[War Arrow]

Not convinced by Sandman I'm afraid - Gaiman has this habit of doing a subtle spin on what someone else already did and making it appear like his own and though he's had his moments (Miracleman after Alan Moore jacked it in) I just find him too contrived somehow. He tries too hard to push the right buttons - little bit of black lace, throw in some Shakespeare, snappy reference to some 18th century dude no other fucker cares about...

Grant Morrison has come out with some utter shite but I'd have that man's babies on the strength of Doom Patrol - The Painting that Ate Paris, the story where Flex Mentallo turns the Pentagon circular with the power of 'muscle mystery'.... just brilliant.

Did you read all of Sandman? I think the best thing about it is the tying up of so many disparate threads in the last two parts - not exactly a unique thing in writing but the narrative in most comics tends to be a lot more linear. I still wonder whether he knew where it was going from the start and left little loose-ends deliberately, or whether he decided on the end later and worked backwards to include themes and characters from the earlier, apparently self-contained stories. Either way, it was masterfully done.

Yeah, I actually still have all of them (except I think issue 26 or something), heading soon to eBay. I thought maybe the first twenty issues were great, I mean really something, but somehow it just felt a bit too aware of its own cleverness after that for me. I'm not saying Neil Gaiman lacks talent (even though that probably is what I'm saying) but too often he seems to be behind a more popular version of something that already existed but with a few bats and spiders bolted on so that self-harming goth teens can dig it. True enough his plotting is admirable but just makes me think of Alan Moore with a Cure record on in the background. And now he's getting acclaim for American Gods (admittedly not a comic) which just seems to be Eddie Campbell's Deadface comic (Greek Gods are alive and well and hanging out in bars) from the late 1980s. I'm probably just resentful of his popularity... sigh. Plus he was fucking rude to me once, the twat.

Mind you - he did invent a certain bespectacled English schoolkid who goes to wizard's college before J.K. Rowling also had the exact same completely original idea.

I was a big fan of that whole Vertigo line for a while - particularly Doom Patrol, Shade, Hellblazer, and Swamp Thing, but I guess Sandman (despite those fantastic first issues) just wasn't for me.

[Sisifo]

Actually I didn't read comics as a kid. I was an avid novel reader instead. In my house there were about 3500+ books, all belonging to my father. Apart of them, there were the magazines and the Tintin and Asterix comics, but they were in french, so I wasn't able to read them until I was a late teenager. Maybe because of that, I regarded comics as an adults thing that had to be read in the original language. Only when Amazon started to ship to Spain, I started to buy and getting up to date with comics in English. Buscema's Conan, Gaiman's Sandman, Miller's Sin City and Dark Night Returns, Risso's 100 bullets, would be those from that period that I still regard as superb. It was very upsetting for me going through marvel or DC, because I hated the continous references to past issues that I hadn't read. Then I started with french and I went through all the classic and not so classic set from Belgium: Tintin, Asterix, Lefranc, Alix, Blake and Mortimer, Yoko Tsuno and all the Spirou gang. Just some years later I was introduced to manga, but again they were imported in original language; as I was studyig japanese during my university years, I collected a lot of them. I had the whole Akira, Dragon Ball, Saint Seiya, Hokuto no Ken, most of Ranma and all Kimagure Orange Road. I had and have a soft spot for Masamune Shirow, and Ryoichi Ikegami so I treasure my originals Appleseed and Ghost in the Shell, Sanctuary and Crying Freeman Among them,
Oddly, when I started my current career, all I could take with me was a small suitcase, and a laptop. There, as a present from friends, I had DVDs with hundreds and hundreds of marvel and DC comics in CBR format and I learnt to like them.

So in my case, no comics as a child, but a lot as adult, liking most of them with no clear style or genre for that.