Why does atheism so often include skepticism ...

[Red Katie]

I started out in plain English, and finished in gobbledygook.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Atheism is a destination, an end point of view reached via a way of thinking, skepticism is one of many ways of thinking that can lead to atheism, so is liking a comedian that takes the piss out of religion, or believing that it is a sound conclusion because a respected thinker has arrived at it. Skepticism and atheism aren't necessarily connected.

Sorry Floppit, but I must disagree with you here. Atheism is not a destination IMO. It is simply the default position, the null hypothesis, the steady state. Religion takes willful belief in a supernatural entity or entities - atheism is simply the lack of such effort.

That it takes so much for many - myself included - to cast aside religious belief, is a testament to the power of self-delusion.

On the OP,

Personally, I was an atheist long before I became a true skeptic. The older I get, the more things I doubt. Where once I would have accepted someone's word on almost anything unless I had a specific reason to doubt them, today, my first thoughts run along the lines of, "Can I trust this person's statement? Is there any reason they might want to convince me of this if it were not true? Assuming that what they are telling me is true to them, is there a simpler explanation that would account for their testimony?" (and this is just when I ask someone the time of the next bus!)

This doesn't make me more closed-minded, on the contrary, it means that I actually expand my mental process in order to include all possible explanations and rank them in order of likelihood, rather than simply accept the one immediately provided.

Skepticism is NOT refusing to take anything on someone's word. It is simply about accepting that the facts as described and the explanation given for them may, in fact, not be exactly as presented. It is about expanding the possibilities, not narrowing them.

There is no such thing as the supernatural. Everything is natural, however weird. There is nothing weirder than quantum physics but it is 100% normal and natural. We do not understand everything about it, or everything about anything, but we are expanding our depth of knowledge daily - not through believing and insisting on the status quo but through questioning everything.

[MrFungus420]

Even the Wiki entry for this film suggests that it is only a film and does not seem to be tied in with any real life events.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal ... al_Version

I never suggested it was Ani nor believed it was based on anything real.. I just said I found it creepy. But that was just what got me thinking on this subject.. because not believing in God seems by some people to require absolute denial of anything that would fall into a category of things we can't find a logical explanation for

I think that you might have it a bit backwards.

I think that it's skepticism that brings many to atheism. So it's that skepticism often includes atheism.

[MrFungus420]

I sometimes get a little perturbed that we tend to practice our attack mode on ourselves when there's no one else around.

This is just so wrong.

How can you even begin to say that there is no one else around? There are probably thousands of other forums with hundred of thousands (if not millions) of others around.

[floppit]

Sorry Floppit, but I must disagree with you here. Atheism is not a destination IMO. It is simply the default position, the null hypothesis, the steady state. Religion takes willful belief in a supernatural entity or entities - atheism is simply the lack of such effort.

Using a geographic metaphor it would still be place rather than means of travel, still no more connected to skepticism than by the reality that the latter has the tendency of transporting a person (who grows up in the world we have, with religion, fairies, ghosts and magic - or just a human being hard wired to see connections between random events and impose explanations from imagination) to the 'place' of rejecting theism.

Again, my main point was not that people started with or without religion, rather that atheism is not a way of thinking just as skepticism is not an opinion.

[Elessarina]

Yes I get that - now - but I was still wondering of what type of things that are considered supernatural that could be things we don't yet understand (and aren't already in the process of trying to) are you speaking of? I'm just interested to know.

Just forget it, I am not interested in being attacked, I shouldn't have started this thread

[Thinking Aloud]

Yes I get that - now - but I was still wondering of what type of things that are considered supernatural that could be things we don't yet understand (and aren't already in the process of trying to) are you speaking of? I'm just interested to know.

Just forget it, I am not interested in being attacked, I shouldn't have started this thread

No-one is attacking.

[Elessarina]

. In the absence of any other evidence, what's a more parsimonious explanation for "creepy" feelings - ..

But my post and point have absolutely nothing to do with "CREEPY" FEELINGS - that is psychological and to do with me not what is happening ...Holy fuck.. i knoew this word turn into some damn attack.

Can someone please delete this thread?

[Clinton Huxley]

As Donald Rumsfeld might say, there are different types of "unknown"....

[JimC]

. In the absence of any other evidence, what's a more parsimonious explanation for "creepy" feelings - ..

But my post and point have absolutely nothing to do with "CREEPY" FEELINGS - that is psychological and to do with me not what is happening ...Holy fuck.. i knoew this word turn into some damn attack.

Can someone please delete this thread?

I certainly have experienced "creepy feelings", and know that they reflect a psychological, subjective truth for current hominids...

But they are not a good basis for nutting out how the universe works...

Good thread to start, nothing to walk away from...

[floppit]

. In the absence of any other evidence, what's a more parsimonious explanation for "creepy" feelings - ..

But my post and point have absolutely nothing to do with "CREEPY" FEELINGS - that is psychological and to do with me not what is happening ...Holy fuck.. i knoew this word turn into some damn attack.

Can someone please delete this thread?

I don't get it - you have got answers that have nothing to do with anything you in particular feel/think, ok I haven't read through all carefully but most seem to be about the subject rather than you.

But then - shit, if I had a quid for every time I've felt attacked, or just looked for the attack I'd be a damn sight wealthier than I am! Seriously Eless, what are we missing? What is it you wanted to talk about because I bet it's just folk being a bit dense and missing the point you're trying to talk about - I know I haven't a clue what it is right now.

[Elessarina]

This doesn't make me more closed-minded, on the contrary, it means that I actually expand my mental process in order to include all possible explanations and rank them in order of likelihood, rather than simply accept the one immediately provided.

Of course I agree with that completely and I am generally skeptical about most things but just because something is unlikely doesn't mean it isn't true or can't happen.

Skepticism is NOT refusing to take anything on someone's word. It is simply about accepting that the facts as described and the explanation given for them may, in fact, not be exactly as presented. It is about expanding the possibilities, not narrowing them.

Indeed but the explanation for them may still fall into a realm of knowledge that we don't yet possess..

There is no such thing as the supernatural. Everything is natural, however weird. There is nothing weirder than quantum physics but it is 100% normal and natural. We do not understand everything about it, or everything about anything, but we are expanding our depth of knowledge daily - not through believing and insisting on the status quo but through questioning everything.

I know everything is natural and accept that the label is applied nonsensical.. nothing that exists can be unnatural or supermatural - it is natural by its very existence..

I don't know what I was getting at really.. it was a bad thread to start

[JimC]

Elessarina wrote:

I don't know what I was getting at really.. it was a bad thread to start

Incorrect!

[klr]

As Donald Rumsfeld might say, there are different types of "unknown"....

How does he know that?

[Clinton Huxley]

As Donald Rumsfeld might say, there are different types of "unknown"....

How does he know that?

That's one of the unknowns