Nice theory, but I have questions.

[GeneticJen]

Gawd, have you read Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin? I reckon you'd like that.

[Clinton Huxley]

Gawd, have you read Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin? I reckon you'd like that.

+1, it's a cracker.

Though I think I left my copy in Cornwall last time I went on hols

[Horwood Beer-Master]

Gawd, have you read Your Inner Fish by Neil Shubin? I reckon you'd like that.

+1, it's a cracker.

Though I think I left my copy in Cornwall last time I went on hols

This was on my boozemass list last year, but I didn't get it.

[ScholasticSpastic]

Recently I've seen:

Incinerator Earth.
Nuclear Winter from comet(s).
Dino diseases.
Siberian Traps Gone Wild.

Sigh.

Flowering plants killed off most of the dinosaurs, 'cept for the birds. The big disaster, probably resulting from a big snowball or rock smacking into our corner of the universe, just finished the job. Don't know that it's true, but there's something about the idea of flowering plants wiping out species that strikes me as cool. Probly 'cuz we look at the severed sex organs of these mighty organisms and it fills us with happy thoughts.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Recently I've seen:

Incinerator Earth.
Nuclear Winter from comet(s).
Dino diseases.
Siberian Traps Gone Wild.

Sigh.

Flowering plants killed off most of the dinosaurs, 'cept for the birds. The big disaster, probably resulting from a big snowball or rock smacking into our corner of the universe, just finished the job. Don't know that it's true, but there's something about the idea of flowering plants wiping out species that strikes me as cool. Probly 'cuz we look at the severed sex organs of these mighty organisms and it fills us with happy thoughts.

Is that a Spaz I spot? A very welcome appearance, Sir!

[ScholasticSpastic]

Is that a Spaz I spot? A very welcome appearance, Sir!

Hi! They took away my interwebz when I stopped giving them green face paper. That, coupled with the near completion of a series of experiments and our scramble to process the data and write paper(s), has severely cramped my forum-whore style.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Is that a Spaz I spot? A very welcome appearance, Sir!

Hi! They took away my interwebz when I stopped giving them green face paper. That, coupled with the near completion of a series of experiments and our scramble to process the data and write paper(s), has severely cramped my forum-whore style.

The loss has been all ours. how are you keeping?

[ScholasticSpastic]

The loss has been all ours. how are you keeping?

Away from fora, unfortunately!

Nah, fine. The economic mess has finally hit this part of the world, so paid hours are harder to come by. On the bright side, there is no shortage of work people are willing to let me do for free. Also, as I was already quite poor, I'm not noticing as big a lifestyle change as a lot of other people.

We should probably try to inject some topicality in these posts soon.

[Bella Fortuna]

No way! Not until I bid you a warm and groping hello.

[ScholasticSpastic]

No way! Not until I bid you a warm and groping hello.

Fuck I miss you all! Rents came down with the falling economy. Hopefully I can be back to posting instead of sleeping sooner for that.

Pardon the lumpy hug, Ma'am. Dunno why, but I can't seem to keep my creases straight when you're around.

[lsdetroit]

i think the extinction of the dinosaurs had less to do with wether they could swim or burrow and more to do with the demands of their diets. with less on the earth obviously larger organisms would be under pressure. from the animals we see today that would support my guess, seeing that they are significantly smaller.

[Pappa]

Recently I've seen:

Incinerator Earth.
Nuclear Winter from comet(s).
Dino diseases.
Siberian Traps Gone Wild.

Sigh.

Flowering plants killed off most of the dinosaurs, 'cept for the birds. The big disaster, probably resulting from a big snowball or rock smacking into our corner of the universe, just finished the job. Don't know that it's true, but there's something about the idea of flowering plants wiping out species that strikes me as cool. Probly 'cuz we look at the severed sex organs of these mighty organisms and it fills us with happy thoughts.

I read an article in the New Scientist a couple of years ago that discussed possibility that a bacterial takeover caused the Permian-Triassic extinction. They also mentioned that bacterial takeovers have been posited for other mass-extinctions too.

[Calilasseia]

Time to revisit the nested hierarchies concept.

Birds are dinosaurs (specifically Neoavian Maniraptoran Theropods) because they inherited their genes from that clade. Any new clade is automatically a member of the clade from which it inherited its genes. All that happens is that the new clade forms a subclade of the ancestral clade.

The basal clade to which we belong is the Chordata (animals with a chord-like extension of the central nervous system from the brain stem). This clade gave rise to the Urochordata (Tunicates) and the Craniata (animals with skulls). The Craniata then gave rise to the Hyperotreti (Hagfishes) and the Vertebrata (true vertebrates). The Vertebrata gave rise to the Hyperoartia (Lampreys) and the Gnathostomata (Jawed vertebrates). The Gnathostomata then gave rise to the Placodermi (armoured jawed fishes, now extinct), the Acanthodii (spiny jawed fishes, now extinct), the Chondrichthyes (cartilaginous fishes including sharks and rays), and the Osteichthyes (bony fishes). The Osteichthyes then gave rise to the Actinopterygii (ray-finned fishes) and the Sarcopterygii (lobe-finned fishes). The Sarcopterygii then gave rise to the Coelacanthomorpha (extant Coelacanths), the Dipnoi (modern day lungfishes) and the terrestrial vertebrates, split into various taxa such as Elginerpeton, Hypnerpeton, Ichtystega, Acanthostega and the like, that occupy their own branches, the Temnospondyli, and the Tetrapoda. The Tetrapoda then gave rise to the various Amphibian clades (of which the Lissamphibians are the sole modern living branch), and the Reptiliomorpha. The Reptiliomorpha then gave rise to various clades, including the Amniota. The Amniota gave rise to the Romerida (and thence to the Diapsida, which contains the lizards, crocodiles, and Archosaurs, which thence gave rise to the birds), the Anapsida (which produced various now-extinct taxa) and the Synapsida. The Synapsida gave rise to the Eupelycosauria, which gave rise to the Sphenacodontia, which in turn gave rise to the Sphenacodontoidea, which then gave rise to the Sphenacondontidae (modern day Tuatara) and the Therapsida (ancestors of mammals).

The Therapsida gave rise to about six different clades, of which the Cynodontia gave rise to another 8 or so, of which the Mammalia was one. The Mammalia then diverged into the Triconodontia, the Monotremata (Echidna and Platypus), the Multituberculata, the Marsupialia and the Eutheria (placental mammals). The Eutheria then gave rise to a diverse range of taxa, including the edentata (Anteaters & Sloths), Pholidota (Pangolins), Lagomorpha (Rabbits & Hares), Rodentia (Mice, Rats, Guinea Pigs etc.), Macroscelida (Elephant Shrews), Insectivora (Shrews & Moles), Creodonta (now extinct), Carnivora (Cats, Dogs, Bears, etc), Condylarthra (now extinct), Certartiodactyla (which gave rise to the Cetacea, or Whales, and the Artiodactyla, or even toed ungulates), Tubulidentata (Aardvark), Perissodactyla (odd-toed ungulates including Horses, Rhinos and Tapirs), Hyracoidea (Hyraxes), Sirenia (Manatees & Dugong), Desmostylia (extinct), Embrythopoda (extinct), Proboscidea (Elephants and allies), Chiroptera (Bats), Dermoptera (Flying Lemurs), Scandentia (Tree Shrews) and Primates (Lemurs, Monkeys and Apes). The Primates diverged into Strepsirrhini (Lemurs), Tarsii (Tarsiers), Platyrrhini (New World Monkeys) and Catarrhini (Old World Monkeys & Apes). The Catarrhini diverged into the Cercopithecidae (Old World Monkeys including Macaques), Hylobatidae (Gibbons) and the Hominidae (Great Apes). The Hominidae then gave rise to the Genera Pongo (Orangutan), Pan (Chimpanzees & Bonobos), Gorilla (Gorillas), and the tribe Hominini, which gave rise to the Genera Ardipithecus, Australopithecus, and ultimately, Homo. The Genus Homo underwent radiation over time into Homo habilis, Homo rudolfensis, Homo ergaster, Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis, then into Homo sapiens, which finally diverged into H. s. sapiens and H. s. neanderthalensis.

So, we are a subclade of:

Chordata
Craniata
Vertebrata
Gnathostomata
Osteichthyes
Sarcopterygii
Tetrapoda
Reptiliomorpha
Amniota
Synapsida
Therapsida
Cynodontia
Mammalia
Eutheria
Primates
Catarrhini
Hominidae
Hominini
Homo

in ascending order of depth of nesting.

I think that covers everything.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Horwood Beer-Master]

I know one wouldn't normally question anything Cali says on these kinds of things, but...

... The Amniota gave rise to the Romerida (and thence to the Diapsida, which contains the lizards, crocodiles, and Archosaurs, which thence gave rise to the birds), the Anapsida (which produced various now-extinct taxa) and the Synapsida. The Synapsida gave rise to the Eupelycosauria, which gave rise to the Sphenacodontia, which in turn gave rise to the Sphenacodontoidea, which then gave rise to the Sphenacondontidae (modern day Tuatara) and the Therapsida (ancestors of mammals)...

...Tuatara belongs to the Synapsids?!??
Shurely shome mishtake?

Also I can't seem to find any info online concerning the Romerida. Wikipedia has the Amniota giving rise to two lines, the Synapsida and the Sauropsida (which in turn contains the Anapsida and Diapsida). Is the Romerida some kind of clade within Sauropsids which contains the Diapsids, or something?