If you vote Tory I'm going to murder you.

[Rum]

...As I said, I am happy to pay the going tax rate for an excellent health service, education system and to protect the most vulnerable and weak sections of our society...

You do realise the Tories are going to slash all those services to bits don't you.

They say they won't, but they will. They're Tories.

Whoever gets in will have to. We are currently spending 200Billion a year more than we have as a country.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

...As I said, I am happy to pay the going tax rate for an excellent health service, education system and to protect the most vulnerable and weak sections of our society...

You do realise the Tories are going to slash all those services to bits don't you.

They say they won't, but they will. They're Tories.

Whoever gets in will have to. We are currently spending 200Billion a year more than we have as a country.

Whoever gets in we'll have to cut something, but the Tories will cut absolutely anything and everything left-right-and-centre, and flog off every service they can think of to their old private sector chums (which as always makes a short term gain, but a long term loss). Oh, and did I mention they're planning tax-cuts for the rich? Strange behaviour for a party that wants to reduce the national debt!


If the government really wants to save some money, they could start by trying to wiggle out of as many of our bloody PFI contracts as possible, and just running things direct instead. It may mean they can't do their little trick of taking all this spending "off the books" anymore, but we're spending that money the money whether we admit it or not. And in most cases we were spending less before some money grabbing (and frequently totally incompetent) private firm got involved.


We can start by cancelling any more shitty academies and building some good-old state run comps again.
I went to a comp and it was a perfectly good school.

[devogue]

No your an idiot and cunt for thinking that it all goes to that

I am an idiot and a cunt for saying that I don't think the state should take more from me than it needs for essential services? What an idiotic, cuntish thing to say. You think that after I have fulfilled my obligations to society that I should surrender more of my money to government voluntarily?

From 1997 to 2005, during a period of unprecedented growth Labour managed to increase Income tax and CGT from 9.2% to 11.3% of national income even though economic growth increased at an average of 3.3% per year. Why wasn't it enough to cream off extra revenue from the expanding economy in real terms rather than go even further and increase the percentage take?

And where has all this money (and much more from business) gone? Gigantic amounts have been shovelled in to the NHS, education, social welfare and policing with billions being wasted on needless bureaucracy while pensioners haven't a pot to piss in, having had their personal pension pots raided and no discernable increase to their state pension. Of course, you'll argue the Tories are worse - in fact they are probably the same but at least people will have a chance to squirrel away a few quid themselves rather than be fucked over for every other penny they have earned.

and being sucked into thinking the conservatives wouldn't do the same and that you would be better off under a tory government.

I'm under no illusions that the Tories will make me any richer; but there's more of a chance that I will be less poor.

They support the big end of town and will screw over honest tax payers just as much labor will and will cut back on such described things because welfare state and the alike is against their ideology.

Did it ever occur to you that "honest tax payers" might like to see the welfare state cut back?

I have absolutely no problem with pensioners getting a decent pension, with disabled or ill people receiving generous assistance from the state, or people who find themselves out of work being helped with a genuinely decent benefits.

However, there are fucking shitloads of people who are taking the piss and have been for years, people who can genuinely work but have chosen not to so they can live off the taxpayer. Fuck them - cut their benefits and get them out to work. In the absence of a utopian state they can get off their holes like the rest of us and muck in.

[Mallardz]

I consider this a violent unjustified threat.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Can we all remember to restrict ourselves to attacking political arguments and not individuals, please? Where do you think you are? The House of Commons?

[Brian Peacock]

Seriously.

Who is your nominated favourite Mr Beer-Master?

[Mishakal]

Can we all remember to restrict ourselves to attacking political arguments and not individuals, please? Where do you think you are? The House of Commons?

What about the Queens Bedchamber?

[Feck]

living will it i get dementia and start turning right ..........you know the rest

[JimC]

living will it i get dementia and start turning right ..........you know the rest

I have meandered towards the right a little over the years...

(but that was from a starting point on the left wing of SDS... )

[redunderthebed]

However, there are fucking shitloads of people who are taking the piss and have been for years, people who can genuinely work but have chosen not to so they can live off the taxpayer. Fuck them - cut their benefits and get them out to work. In the absence of a utopian state they can get off their holes like the rest of us and muck in.

I'd love to see the evidence for this shitloads of people otherwise i just think its a conservative chestnut to attack the welfare state.

I mean you are going to get lazy cunts who don't want to work but to say its endemic or there is shitloads is just plain wrong methinks. Also even if you wanted them to work where are you going to employ them most people who are as you described are thoroughly unemployable. Not to mention you need a diploma to do anything apart from stack shelves and the alike these days.

You obviously haven't being on welfare for awhile if ever its fuck all its to survive i don't blame the govt for that im just stating a fact and it sure as f*ck is no laugh.

[devogue]

However, there are fucking shitloads of people who are taking the piss and have been for years, people who can genuinely work but have chosen not to so they can live off the taxpayer. Fuck them - cut their benefits and get them out to work. In the absence of a utopian state they can get off their holes like the rest of us and muck in.

I'd love to see the evidence for this shitloads of people otherwise i just think its a conservative chestnut to attack the welfare state.

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem ... _sep08.pdf

There's £900,000,000 worth of evidence for this chestnut within that report. That's just in one year.

Even that is disputed, with this commentator suggesting that current benefit fraud costs at least £2,000,000,000 per year:

http://www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-be ... index.html

I mean you are going to get lazy cunts who don't want to work but to say its endemic or there is shitloads is just plain wrong methinks.

I disagree. Each one of these bastards is literally stealing at least £60 from every working person in Britain every year. Labour has done fuck all about them and intends to do fuck all about them.

Also even if you wanted them to work where are you going to employ them most people who are as you described are thoroughly unemployable. Not to mention you need a diploma to do anything apart from stack shelves and the alike these days.

Let them stack shelves then. What's wrong with that? Proper, honest, valuable work - that's where I started in my trade. Ensure they are protected fully by the minimum wage and get them working!

Also, the voluntary sector is absolutely crying out for help with 60% of organisations having difficulties with recruitment* - what is wrong with insisting perfectly able people on benefits contribute a certain amount of time each week to help in this sector? Of course, they should have a certain amount of flexible time each week to train or job hunt in their chosen occupation, but what is fundamentally wrong with making people (especially those who are doing fuck all else anyway) contribute to this sector?

*http://www.tgwu.org.uk/Templates/Intern ... 1&L2=91799

You obviously haven't being on welfare for awhile if ever its fuck all its to survive i don't blame the govt for that im just stating a fact and it sure as f*ck is no laugh.

Being on the dole is anathema to many people, and they try to get back in to work as soon as they can (as I did ten years ago) - as you say, £50-60 a week is fuck all but it's not genuine people I am complaining about.

There is a section of society who have worked out how to pile benefit on top of benefit to create a comfortable lifestyle they are happy with, a lifestyle which means they never need to work - my fucking useless brother-in-law for one.

[AshtonBlack]

I like that volunteer idea, Dev. If there is no reason you cannot work, but have been out of work for a set number of weeks, you can choose a number of authorised volunteer groups to do a couple of days a week in. Is that asking too much?

[redunderthebed]

I like that volunteer idea, Dev. If there is no reason you cannot work, but have been out of work for a set number of weeks, you can choose a number of authorised volunteer groups to do a couple of days a week in. Is that asking too much?

Then its not voluntary i know what your saying is well-meaning but thats essentially forced unpaid labor and thats wrong.

[redunderthebed]

However, there are fucking shitloads of people who are taking the piss and have been for years, people who can genuinely work but have chosen not to so they can live off the taxpayer. Fuck them - cut their benefits and get them out to work. In the absence of a utopian state they can get off their holes like the rest of us and muck in.

I'd love to see the evidence for this shitloads of people otherwise i just think its a conservative chestnut to attack the welfare state.

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem ... _sep08.pdf

There's £900,000,000 worth of evidence for this chestnut within that report. That's just in one year.

Even that is disputed, with this commentator suggesting that current benefit fraud costs at least £2,000,000,000 per year:

http://www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-be ... index.html

I mean you are going to get lazy cunts who don't want to work but to say its endemic or there is shitloads is just plain wrong methinks.

I disagree. Each one of these bastards is literally stealing at least £60 from every working person in Britain every year. Labour has done fuck all about them and intends to do fuck all about them.

Also even if you wanted them to work where are you going to employ them most people who are as you described are thoroughly unemployable. Not to mention you need a diploma to do anything apart from stack shelves and the alike these days.

Let them stack shelves then. What's wrong with that? Proper, honest, valuable work - that's where I started in my trade. Ensure they are protected fully by the minimum wage and get them working!

Also, the voluntary sector is absolutely crying out for help with 60% of organisations having difficulties with recruitment* - what is wrong with insisting perfectly able people on benefits contribute a certain amount of time each week to help in this sector? Of course, they should have a certain amount of flexible time each week to train or job hunt in their chosen occupation, but what is fundamentally wrong with making people (especially those who are doing fuck all else anyway) contribute to this sector?

*http://www.tgwu.org.uk/Templates/Intern ... 1&L2=91799

You obviously haven't being on welfare for awhile if ever its fuck all its to survive i don't blame the govt for that im just stating a fact and it sure as f*ck is no laugh.

Being on the dole is anathema to many people, and they try to get back in to work as soon as they can (as I did ten years ago) - as you say, £50-60 a week is fuck all but it's not genuine people I am complaining about.

There is a section of society who have worked out how to pile benefit on top of benefit to create a comfortable lifestyle they are happy with, a lifestyle which means they never need to work - my fucking useless brother-in-law for one.

You said nothing about fraud at all i agree benefit fraud should be punished to the fullest extent and those who commit it should be cut off.

Nothing wrong with that but stacking shelves will hardly be long-term employment that will keep them off benefits nor provide a living wage. Anything that isn't just working for about the same as you would get on the benefits if not less needs what i mentioned benefits and really when you can live on benefits and do nothing and get the same not much incentive is it?.

Which isn't there fault its the retarded wankers who seem to think you need a qualification to do everything and bosses who use anyone who goes on a apprenticeship or traineeship as cheap disaposable labour with no intention of employment et al.


You're statement to me Dev seemed to tar all people with the same brush it could of helped if you elaborated. As long as there is social welfare dev there will be people who will manipulate it to there advantage get over it is my message you're brother-in-law and others tory or labor will sit on there arse and pile benefits like they did before.The only people who will be hurt by the tories are the people who really need it.

[Elessarina]

Nothing wrong with that but stacking shelves will hardly be long-term employment that will keep them off benefits nor provide a living wage.

What an incredibly snobby and judgemental statement...are you suggesting that people who do this aren't earning a valid living? some people do it all their lives. Some people stick labels on apples all their lives, some people clean or sweep roads all their lives.. are you suggesting what they do is somehow not a worthy way to earn money?