Adolf Hitler was an Atheist. Period.

[BrettA]

That's the unsurprising assumption/assertion this morning on a United Church of Canada forum, so I'm looking for two or three almost unimpeachable sources - ideally well-researched, scholarly books by very reputable Historians - to counter that. For some reason, my subsequent assertion in a hurried postscript of: "Pssst: Hitler was a theist" didn't sway them. I'd hope whatever sources people come up with to be available on-line or would likely be available at a Public or University/College Library and would kind of have the flavour of:

“It was Christians, you know, not pagans, who were responsible for the Holocaust. It was Christians, not pagans, who lynched people here in the South, who burned people at the stake, frequently in the name of this Jesus Christ" -- Archbishop Desmond Tutu, U.S. Conference for the World Council of Churches, 2000

Can anyone recommend any source, please? I'm dealing partly with an historian who seems to think he's God. I have lots of Hitler-as-Christian quotes from him and Wiki data seems to point clearly to that Hitler was Christian, but I'd really like more reputable sources. A Christian author would be good as well, in the same way that Christian cell biologist Ken Miller was a great pick to rip apart Behe's "Intelligent Design" idea in the Dover trial - it adds credibility to many Xian ears that something comes from a Xian. Thoughts? (I haven't been around much recently so sorry to request your help right off the bat here, but it'll be appreciated!) TIA. :-)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm

[klr]

it's very difficult to try and summarise Hitler's religious beliefs in a nice and compact way ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitl ... us_beliefs

[AshtonBlack]

Even if he was an atheist (unproven to any acceptable criterion), he certainly used religion to forward his power and authority of his people and soldier.
"Got Mit Uns."

[klr]

http://www.evilbible.com/hitler_was_christian.htm

Now, here's where I have a problem:

a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Hitler's baptism might make him a Catholic in the eyes of the Catholic Church, but to us he would be no more than "the child of Catholic parents". In other words, we cannot use this to say one way or another if/how religion contributed to his world view and later actions as an adult. Much the same applies to points (b)-(d).

e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

The fact that he was never excommunicated says a lot more about the Catholic Church than it does about Hitler himself. But the explanation given for not excommunicating him is just never going to fly I'm afraid. It might suit "the cause of atheism" if it were a bald statement of the truth, but it's not.

Distorting the historical facts surrounding the Concordat, etc., is not good history. And why should we give Hitler's public pronouncements here any more credence than other statements that he made?

[klr]

Just in case anyone thinks I'm here to defend the Catholic Church, or religion generally: Not a bit of it. But a good deal of what Evilbible has to say about Hitler is scandalously misleading, and you don't prove your case by doing that. The truth is more than damaging enough, but it just takes time to detail it.

[BrettA]

Thanks Guys and I likely know and use all or most of the sites and cites from "atheist" and wiki type sources. But these are Stirling (lol) Xian folk who'll discount these sources like we do with CreationWiki or the Discovery Institute (though of course they're just crap). To reiterate excerpts and highlight:

I'm looking for two or three almost unimpeachable sources - ideally well-researched, scholarly books by very reputable Historians - to counter that. ... I'd really like more reputable sources. A Christian author would be good as well, in the same way that Christian cell biologist Ken Miller was a great pick to rip apart Behe's "Intelligent Design" idea in the Dover trial - it adds credibility to many Xian ears that something comes from a Xian.

Thank, KLR - partly my thoughts, too.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If he comes back with "Well, he was just paying lip service to Christian, but he wasn't really one" you could reply, "That's true of EVERY self-proclaimed Christian I've ever met." See if he gets the idea.

[BrettA]

If he comes back with "Well, he was just paying lip service to Christian, but he wasn't really one" you could reply, "That's true of EVERY self-proclaimed Christian I've ever met." See if he gets the idea.

Way worse than that, methinks, 'Zilla... here's his reply re my assertion (as noted above) following his assumptive statement that Hitler was atheist:

"for an example of pseudo intellectualism, note Brett's last line Pssst - Hitler was a theist.

Isn't that something? The man of learning casually passing off his vast knowledge to us slobss - and doing it in a way he thinks is cute, and just shows who stupid we are."

LOL, LOL, LOL!

[klr]

"Let me get back to you"

TBH, I've never been overly worked up about the exact details of Hitler's own religious make-up. Him being such an oddball only makes it harder than normal to analyse and come to a conclusion. Also, his public statements could often be construed as self-serving (lip-service), and his private statements as potentially unreliable (as in we can't be sure he said what he's supposed to have said).

I prefer to focus on the fact that many millions of supposedly devout Christians (and not just Germans) knowingly waged not just an unjust war of aggressions, but also one of extermination. That and the fact that anti-Semitism flourished under Christianity for the most part.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If he comes back with "Well, he was just paying lip service to Christian, but he wasn't really one" you could reply, "That's true of EVERY self-proclaimed Christian I've ever met." See if he gets the idea.

Way worse than that, methinks, 'Zilla... here's his reply re my assertion (as noted above) following his assumptive statement that Hitler was atheist:

"for an example of pseudo intellectualism, note Brett's last line Pssst - Hitler was a theist.

Isn't that something? The man of learning casually passing off his vast knowledge to us slobss - and doing it in a way he thinks is cute, and just shows who stupid we are."

LOL, LOL, LOL!

Have you tried a 9mm rebuttal? That's all that is going to deal with that troll.

[klr]

If he comes back with "Well, he was just paying lip service to Christian, but he wasn't really one" you could reply, "That's true of EVERY self-proclaimed Christian I've ever met." See if he gets the idea.

Way worse than that, methinks, 'Zilla... here's his reply re my assertion (as noted above) following his assumptive statement that Hitler was atheist:

"for an example of pseudo intellectualism, note Brett's last line Pssst - Hitler was a theist.

Isn't that something? The man of learning casually passing off his vast knowledge to us slobss - and doing it in a way he thinks is cute, and just shows who stupid we are."

LOL, LOL, LOL!

Have you tried a 9mm rebuttal? That's all that is going to deal with that troll.

Not over the internet ...

BTW, one of the pitfalls in this debate is to accept the premise that:

(Hitler <> Christian) = (Hitler = Atheist)

Hitler may or may not have been a Christian. What exactly is a Christian anyway? How do we define it in an inclusive way? To some Christians, the very worst abomination is/was other types of Christian.

But for him to be an atheist, he'd have had to have no religious/supernatural beliefs at all. And that does not seem to have been the case. So we might not know for sure what he was, but we have a better idea of what he was not.

[Animavore]

Hitler was an atheist period

[AshtonBlack]

Hitler was an atheist period

Yes and he had to use special atheist feminine products.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Hitler was an atheist period

Yes and he had to use special atheist feminine products.

"There is no blot."