Palestine v Israel.

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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Oct 07, 2025 4:13 pm

The Zionist consensus among US Jews has collapsed. Something new is emerging

Shaul Magid

... We find ourselves at a moment where the compatibility of “liberalism” and “Zionism” feels increasingly untenable. How can a state that privileges its Jewish citizens while so egregiously devaluing the lives of the Palestinians under its control ever be called liberal? Basic principles of liberalism that include equality and the protection of individual rights for all do not cohere with present-day Israel even on a generous reading. The permanent occupation, to say nothing of the destruction of Gaza, has undermined any plausible claim to Israel as a “liberal” country...
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by Svartalf » Wed Oct 08, 2025 1:16 am

a state that has no structure allowing for the marriages of non jews is by definition a theocracy, not a liberal state
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Oct 09, 2025 5:53 am

Noticed quite a strong sentiment on social media that doesn't condemn Hamas' attacks on Oct 7. But instead strongly supports it. Essentially, they have a right to resist the oppressor any way they can. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by aufbahrung » Thu Oct 09, 2025 7:28 am

Middle east doing its thing. As it as for millenia now. Average joe with a memory like a gold fish saying who the bad guys are based on this weeks news. Not surprising really, news media love a bit of a cavort going on that way as clickbait. Nothing will change until the entire region is safely under the rising seas. And out of anyone's dominion.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Oct 09, 2025 8:54 am

You've got this one on high rotation, Crumps.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:08 am

pErvinalia wrote:Noticed quite a strong sentiment on social media that doesn't condemn Hamas' attacks on Oct 7. But instead strongly supports it. Essentially, they have a right to resist the oppressor any way they can. What are your thoughts?
Targeting civilians, women, children, the elderly etc is wrong. Resisting a military occupation in your own lands is right.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:14 am

Is there a point at which the citizens in a democracy become complicate in the state's crimes?
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:15 am

Not children, obviously
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by aufbahrung » Fri Oct 10, 2025 8:47 am

Peace in the middle east? that's what you call a lull whilst both sides renew their stockpiles and some further mindless atrocity is planned by each side
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Oct 10, 2025 4:04 pm

I’m surprised by you, friend of the red horse. Peace in Europe! :rofl:

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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by aufbahrung » Fri Oct 10, 2025 5:29 pm

Nobody realistic really expects peace to break out and last after so long - I guess, maybe Trumps Las Vegas in the Middle East will prove me wrong. Harry Harrison Stainless Steel Rat had a similar solution....in one of his stories...time will tell I guess
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:30 pm

The problem isn’t your pessimism, but that you think peace is unlikely because of something unique in the makeup of the people involved. Any observer with a similarly broad view could make the same claim regarding Europeans. You bastids have only ever been at war! War is literally your history.

Of course that’s true of most, isn’t it? The ancient histories wrestled with every aspect of humanity through the lens of war…

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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:45 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:14 am
Is there a point at which the citizens in a democracy become complicate in the state's crimes?
I don’t think so, probably for several reasons.

—no unified point of view

—no direct means to craft policy

—no access to privileged information used by authorities

—active campaigns by authorities to distort reality put citizens at further disadvantage

—limited capacity for voluntary involvement at any level

…and many more I’m sure.

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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by aufbahrung » Fri Oct 10, 2025 6:48 pm

The minature equivalent of world war two just took out all the aggressive ones on the losing side. So maybe peace will last longer, even a lot longer. Just like it did in Northern Ireland after that helicopter crash took off the head of the aggressive English military. And then peace broke out that lasted there although it is beginning to show signs of fraying now.
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Re: Palestine v Israel.

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Oct 10, 2025 7:03 pm

That was almost optimistic of you Crump. You've changed!
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