Palestine v Israel.

[Brian Peacock]

Sure, it might allow zionists to proclaim that all pro-Palestinian views are in fact antisemitic, but that doesn't make it true. Antisemitism is real, and there's some overlap on the ven diagram with some people holding pro-Palestinian views, but there's also Jews, including holocaust survivors, who support Palestinian self-determination and abhor what the current Israeli regime are doing. Then there are people who support Palestinians on broader justice and human rights grounds that have nothing to do with ethnicity or religion. What I'm saying is there isn't just one type of pro-Palestinian perspective.

And yet, by the binary framing of pro-Israeli-genocide defender any and all objections to the systematic destruction of Gaza and the indiscriminate slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians are always, necessarily, antisemitic. That's fallacious because it attempts to shift the burden of justification, and it's disingenuous because it relies on pretending that the only grounds for objecting to Israel's genocidal war against the Palestinian people is the ethnic and religious identity of the Jews involved.

[JimC]

Sure, it might allow zionists to proclaim that all pro-Palestinian views are in fact antisemitic, but that doesn't make it true. Antisemitism is real, and there's some overlap on the ven diagram with some holding pro-Palestinian views, but there's also Jews, including holocaust survivors, who support Palestinian self-determination and abhor what the current Israeli regime are doing. Then there are people who support Palestinians on justice and human rights grounds that have nothing to do with ethnicity or religion. What I'm saying is there isn't just one type of pro-Palestinian perspective.

And yet, by the binary framing of pro-Israeli-genocide defenders any and all objections to the systematic destruction of Gaza and the indiscriminate slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent civilians are always,, necessarily, antisemitic. That's fallacious because it attempts to shift the burden of justification, and it's disingenuous because it relies on pretending that the only grounds for objecting to Israel's genocidal war against the Palestinian people is the ethnic and religious identity of the Jews involved.

All very true, but it is also true that the sliding into anti-semitism by some supporters of Palestine is playing into the hands of zionists. Naturally enough, examples of such anti-semitism has been widely trumpeted by the conservative media here, and I presume around the world. Neo nazi groups would be chortling with glee as some leftists are sucked in to fulminate about Jews rather than the Israeli government's actions...

[Tyrannical]

Trump asked who owns Gaza?

Who ever clears the debris and rebuilds owns the land.

[Strontium Dog]

It gets a bit tired when any criticism of the Israeli government's actions, however mild, is classed as both anti-semitic and automatic support for Hamas etc...

It's a move to put the supposedly hurt feelings of those supporting genocide at the top of the agenda. It also invokes and prioritizes those feelings on behalf of all Jews everywhere, conveniently implying that all Jews are experiencing the conflict in the same way as the genocide supporter. It's not only fallacious, it's fundamentally disingenuous.

What is disingenuous is calling an ordinary war with a fairly ordinary death rate a genocide. It must be the only genocide in history where the population has gone up. Remarkable.

One rule for Jews. Another for everyone else. That's antisemitism.

[Brian Peacock]

It gets a bit tired when any criticism of the Israeli government's actions, however mild, is classed as both anti-semitic and automatic support for Hamas etc...

It's a move to put the supposedly hurt feelings of those supporting genocide at the top of the agenda. It also invokes and prioritizes those feelings on behalf of all Jews everywhere, conveniently implying that all Jews are experiencing the conflict in the same way as the genocide supporter. It's not only fallacious, it's fundamentally disingenuous.

What is disingenuous is calling an ordinary war with a fairly ordinary death rate a genocide. It must be the only genocide in history where the population has gone up. Remarkable.

One rule for Jews. Another for everyone else. That's antisemitism.

Bit of a non sequitur there eh? Again, it isn't antisemitic to challenge or oppose Israeli policy and action directly impacting Gaza's civilian population.

It's not deaths alone which determine when/if a conflict becomes a genocide - as well you know.

Please provide independent sources to support the claim that Gazan casualties represent "a fairly ordinary death rate".

Similarly, please provide a justification to support the claim that a conflict in which c.96% of the casualties fall on one side--the vast majority of whom are civilians--represents an "ordinary war".

[pErvinalia]

God you are antisemitic, Brian.

[Brian Peacock]

Of course, because only non-antisemitic people are qualified to criticise the Israeli regime, but if you critise the Israeli regime you're definitely antisemitic.

[Tero]

Ethnic cleansing cont.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... splacement

[rainbow]

One rule for Jews. Another for everyone else. That's antisemitism.

It is OK for the IDF to bomb hospitals, but outrage when Russians do the same.

[rainbow]

US to stop sending condoms to Gaza.

Trump, who said last week that Musk discovered that “$100 million dollars” was earmarked by the Biden’s administration for “condoms to Hamas,” did not similarly retract his claim.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/musk-walk ... -for-gaza/

[L'Emmerdeur]

Please provide independent sources ...

What an antisemitic thing to say, and therefore unlikely to merit a response other than threadbare sneering.

For death rate, we have these antisemitic sources:

Haaretz, Oxfam

I think we can safely say that all fact checkers are antisemitic, so here's one of those despicable sources on the assertion that 'actually, the population of Gaza has increased'.

Politifact

[Animavore]

Just the Wall Street Joyrnal casually suggesting ethnic cleansing.

[Tyrannical]

Just the Wall Street Joyrnal casually suggesting ethnic cleansing.

Palestinians can't afford to rebuild gaza and no one is going to give them the money to do so either
Luckily for them, it's valuable real estate. So they have to sell the land and use the money to buy a house in a more affordable real estate market.

Cant think of any other option that doesn't involve convincing someone to give the Palestinians a lot of money for free.

[JimC]

Saudi and the other gulf states should be easily able to fund a rebuild for their fellow muslims...

[Brian Peacock]

Please provide independent sources ...

What an antisemitic thing to say, and therefore unlikely to merit a response other than threadbare sneering.

For death rate, we have these antisemitic sources:

Haaretz, Oxfam

I think we can safely say that all fact checkers are antisemitic, so here's one of those despicable sources on the assertion that 'actually, the population of Gaza has increased'.

Politifact

Meh. All he'll do is dispute and denigrate your sources rather than supporting his claims with his own - if he bothers at all.