Palestine v Israel.

[pErvinalia]

The US/UK/Australia aren't asking for an immediate ceasefire. The only conclusion is that they care more about shipping than innocent civilians.

I wonder what diplomatic efforts were made before deciding to bomb yet another country.

[Strontium Dog]

Yeah, maybe those slave-owning terrorists would listen to reason.

[JimC]

Actually, Penny Wong has called for a ceasefire. And the Houthi attacks on shipping can be viewed as a separate issue from the conflict in Gaza - any group that decides to act effectively as pirates can expect military consequences - the Houthis are rebels within their own country, not a legitimate nation. Their attacks on international shipping have nothing to do with Israel. From all reports, the attacks by the US and UK have been very specifically targeted, with only a few armed Houthi casualties, possibly no civilian deaths. A far cry from the wanton and indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF...

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, maybe those slave-owning terrorists would listen to reason.

Well their goal purportedly was to end the invasion. Diplomatically there might have been a compromise. I think it's important to try everything before bombing yet another country.

[pErvinalia]

Actually, Penny Wong has called for a ceasefire. And the Houthi attacks on shipping can be viewed as a separate issue from the conflict in Gaza - any group that decides to act effectively as pirates can expect military consequences - the Houthis are rebels within their own country, not a legitimate nation. Their attacks on international shipping have nothing to do with Israel. From all reports, the attacks by the US and UK have been very specifically targeted, with only a few armed Houthi casualties, possibly no civilian deaths. A far cry from the wanton and indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF...

Not sure on the ceasefire thing. Her words don't use that phrase. And the US and UK aren't asking for a meaningful ceasefire as far as I know. And the Houthis actions are directly to do with Gaza. Not sure where you are getting your news from.

[pErvinalia]

The reality is that only the US could force a ceasefire. They aren't interested in one. Not surprisingly they are all for bombing more people, though.

[pErvinalia]

... any group that decides to act effectively as pirates can expect military consequences...

Unless you are Israel. Israel have killed more sailors during their blockade of Gaza than the Houthis have.

[aufbahrung]

It's important to realise there might not be any big plan. This could all be a random display of violence by apes for display purposes. With no rational or end game planned. The stone tumbles down the hillside with increasing momentum until the bullets run out.

[JimC]

Actually, Penny Wong has called for a ceasefire. And the Houthi attacks on shipping can be viewed as a separate issue from the conflict in Gaza - any group that decides to act effectively as pirates can expect military consequences - the Houthis are rebels within their own country, not a legitimate nation. Their attacks on international shipping have nothing to do with Israel. From all reports, the attacks by the US and UK have been very specifically targeted, with only a few armed Houthi casualties, possibly no civilian deaths. A far cry from the wanton and indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF...

Not sure on the ceasefire thing. Her words don't use that phrase. And the US and UK aren't asking for a meaningful ceasefire as far as I know. And the Houthis actions are directly to do with Gaza. Not sure where you are getting your news from.

The Houthis say that their actions are to do with Gaza. The reality is that they are attacking any commercial shipping they can. How many of those ships are owned by Israel, or carrying cargoes to or from Israel? For the Houthis, it's spin and virtue signalling - look, we are attacking horrible Israel in support of Palestine!

Basically, it's to do with power blocks and alliances. Hezbollah, Hamas and the Houthis are Shiite oriented Islamic groups who get all their military and economic support from Iran. The government of the rest of Yemen is Sunni oriented, and supported by Saudi Arabia.

As for Penny Wong:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-18/ ... /103361970

Foreign Minister Penny Wong has made her first visit to the West Bank as Australia's top diplomat to urge peace among Israelis and Palestinians.

Senator Wong travelled into the occupied territory for meetings with Palestinian officials and local residents, a day after talks with Israeli powerbrokers.

She told the Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh that Australia was lending its support to calls for a ceasefire in the Gaza war and a two-state solution.

[pErvinalia]

Actually, Penny Wong has called for a ceasefire. And the Houthi attacks on shipping can be viewed as a separate issue from the conflict in Gaza - any group that decides to act effectively as pirates can expect military consequences - the Houthis are rebels within their own country, not a legitimate nation. Their attacks on international shipping have nothing to do with Israel. From all reports, the attacks by the US and UK have been very specifically targeted, with only a few armed Houthi casualties, possibly no civilian deaths. A far cry from the wanton and indiscriminate killing of civilians by the IDF...

Not sure on the ceasefire thing. Her words don't use that phrase. And the US and UK aren't asking for a meaningful ceasefire as far as I know. And the Houthis actions are directly to do with Gaza. Not sure where you are getting your news from.

The Houthis say that their actions are to do with Gaza. The reality is that they are attacking any commercial shipping they can.

That's only happened after the US et al attacked. Before that they were only targeting Israeli bound ships.

As for Penny Wong:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-18/ ... /103361970

Foreign Minister Penny Wong has made her first visit to the West Bank as Australia's top diplomat to urge peace among Israelis and Palestinians.

Senator Wong travelled into the occupied territory for meetings with Palestinian officials and local residents, a day after talks with Israeli powerbrokers.

She told the Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh that Australia was lending its support to calls for a ceasefire in the Gaza war and a two-state solution.

As I said, when you read her actual words she doesn't call for a ceasefire. She calls for a lasting peace. I'm sure Israel wants a lasting peace as well, but not in the next few months.

My point still stands. The west cares more about shipping delays than they do innocent Palestinians getting slaughtered and ethnically cleansed. Israel basically has had, and continues to have, a free pass to do whatever they want. History won't look back kindly at this.

[Svartalf]

Let's paradrop frump into the houti HQ, by the time he's done they'll be so busy arguing among themselves they won't be a danger to anyone.

[pErvinalia]

Hamas wouldn't have attacked if Trump was President.

[Brian Peacock]

Fair points Jim. But I think we have to acknowledge that the Houthi leadership are sending their eager martyrs out into the red sea to annoy shipping because of what's happening in Gaza. The attacks on shipping are a vain, and vainglorious attempt to exert some economic consequence for what increasingly appears to be Israel's US-sanctioned ethnic-cleansing of the Palestinian's of Gaza - and increasingly of the West Bank.

If the US and the UK were truly serious about securing shipping and saving lives, reducing suffering, promoting peace etc they'd be putting pressure on Israel to stop bombing tented cities with the dumb ordinance they've sold them, and instead trying to use their dwindling political capital to force the parties to a ceasefire and negotiations. However, the old imperial thinking runs deep and so their impulse is to demonstrate their power with overwhelming military force - essentially repeating a long history of calamitous interventions the region in forlorn hope of getting a different outcome.

That bastion of progressive left-wing politics, Piers Morgan(!), is starting to see what everyone else has been seeing for the last 100 days or so...

[Strontium Dog]

Appeasing terrorist demands, how could that possibly backfire.

[Brian Peacock]

The only alternative to this war is a negotiated peace, not attempting to utterly blot out the memory of Gaza from under heaven.