The Coronavirus Thread

[Sean Hayden]

Next to the 4k that have died on the road so far this year.

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Are you suggesting there should be no deaths from covid before we move on? If not, what's the number of deaths before you think of covid as another risk you must face, but not one which requires any more vigilance than vaccination, or healthy diet and exercise?

[JimC]

Some info from an ABC article:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2021 ... /100484432

So, how well are the COVID-19 vaccines working at preventing people from getting sick?

And if you do get infected after being vaccinated, how likely are you to pass the virus onto someone else?


Research shows COVID-19 vaccines remain highly effective at preventing severe disease and death six months after vaccination, including against the highly transmissible Delta variant.

"Consistently, all of the vaccines seem to be doing that with more than 90 per cent effectiveness, including with time," said Peter Collignon, an infectious diseases physician and microbiologist at the Australian National University.

"[They're] even better at reducing your risk of dying — probably a 95 to 98 per cent decreased risk."

A recent study of more than 44,000 people in Los Angeles found unvaccinated people were 29 times more likely than vaccinated people to end up hospitalised from COVID-19.

The rate of hospitalisation among vaccinated people was 1 per 100,000 people.

In Australia, we're seeing a similar pattern: the vast majority of hospitalisations and deaths from COVID-19 are occurring in unvaccinated people.

While vaccination is our strongest weapon against COVID-19, no vaccine is 100 per cent effective, and some fully vaccinated people will become infected.

These are known as breakthrough infections.

Estimates vary, but UK data suggests 0.2 per cent of the population — or one person in every 500 — experiences a breakthrough infection once being fully vaccinated.

Other research indicates that risk might be higher. One UK study found one in approximately 25 vaccinated people tested positive following contact with a known COVID-19 case.

Fortunately, most people who get COVID-19 after being vaccinated won't become very sick, and even fewer will require hospitalisation, said epidemiologist and biostatistician Adrian Esterman from the University of South Australia.

"The vast majority of people will only have very mild symptoms, if any at all," he said.

The people most at risk of serious illness from a breakthrough infection are adults over 65 and people with compromised immune systems.

That's because they tend to generate a weaker immune response to vaccines, and is why they're being prioritised for booster vaccines overseas.

[Sean Hayden]

Of those who were vaccinated the majority had serious conditions.

The idea that we all should continue as we have been for the foreseeable future is a difficult sell.

Not sure what you mean by that first sentence. Do you mean those who were vaccinated but caught covid? In reality, vaccinated people who catch covid mostly have mild symptoms. Tero's figures show a tiny number of vaccinated people for whom that is not true, but statistically, being vaccinated will prevent death for most people.

Again, your second sentence is also obscure. Please explain...

Of those who were vaccinated and died the majority had serious conditions e.g. diabetes, high blood pressure.

Why should vaccinated individuals without these conditions continue to isolate, wear masks, or worry in general?

[JimC]

Are you suggesting there should be no deaths from covid before we move on? If not, what's the number of deaths before you think of covid as another risk you must face, but not one which requires any more vigilance than vaccination, or healthy diet and exercise?

In most countries, "moving on" will be a phased affair, steadily increasing a variety of freedoms as vaccination rates grow. Moving on is not all or nothing, and certainly no community will wait until there are zero deaths from covid.

Sean, I think you missed my earlier point. It's not that the overt return to pre-pandemic freedoms won't occur, but it's my contention that the pandemic has produced an indelible mark on the way most people regard the nexus between their behaviour (and the behaviour of their community) and the risk of infection, to covid specifically, but in fact to all dangerous infectious diseases. In our mindset, most of us will retain a background awareness of the dangers of future infectious outbreaks, whether known or new...

[Sean Hayden]

I was talking to Tero there. I didn't see you had posted just before that.

I'm not convinced those who aren't currently talking about moving on have any plans to do so, or any idea of what they're waiting for.

[JimC]

Of those who were vaccinated the majority had serious conditions.

The idea that we all should continue as we have been for the foreseeable future is a difficult sell.

Not sure what you mean by that first sentence. Do you mean those who were vaccinated but caught covid? In reality, vaccinated people who catch covid mostly have mild symptoms. Tero's figures show a tiny number of vaccinated people for whom that is not true, but statistically, being vaccinated will prevent death for most people.

Again, your second sentence is also obscure. Please explain...

Of those who were vaccinated and died the majority had serious conditions e.g. diabetes, high blood pressure.

Why should vaccinated individuals without these conditions continue to isolate, wear masks, or worry in general?

OK, now I get what you were saying, and there is some truth in that. Most healthy vaccinated people will be fairly safe to engage in social activities as in the past, although remember that, if those activities include mingling with the unvaccinated, one still has a chance of both catching and passing on covid, even if one may not suffer serious health consequences. Of course, as the vaccinated portion of the population climbs, this statistically based risk to the community declines.

The "worry in general" thing is not necessarily something one can make go away - in recent posts, I've suggested that a certain level of anxiety about infections in general has been heightened by this pandemic, and will remain with us for a long time...

[macdoc]

Just look to Europe for your answer. This ain't over.

Isolate is only when you have been exposed - that's where top notch contact tracing and testing is critical.
We had ONE 3 day lockdown in Cairns since day one when ONE taxi driver caught it from a pilot.
No further cases resulted as all who had contact with him were traced and tested quickly and they isolated. The rest of us to a 3 day vaca from going out.

Wear masks when in closed spaces and there is where the tracing and local elimination of any cases is the best. I carry a mask ...never need it cept at doctors.

Worry??? It's a pandemic FFS ...of course it's a worry on any number of fronts...even 20 year olds and kids are dying and the worry goes beyond health to financial stresses on society.

The more places like Europe waffle on about living with it ....the higher the risk becomes of
a) overloading healthcare
b) a nastier variant emerging

I accept a personal risk riding mcycle at 74 - I don't infect anyone in the process - haven't had a road accident in 57 years of riding.

Covid is societal risk and made worse by the anti-vax and careless idjits that puts my risk outside my control entirely beyond avoiding them and the regions that fail to control Covid.

The Pfizer pill is a big mitigator....but I'd still prefer to avoid anywhere where there is community spread....right now that's most of the planet and not a few portions of Australia...

[Sean Hayden]

Well one sure way to never stop worrying is to hold onto behavior and conversation more appropriate to pre-vaccination times.

The risk to vaccinated individuals is low.

[Scot Dutchy]

Well one sure way to never stop worrying is to hold onto behavior and conversation more appropriate to pre-vaccination times.

The risk to vaccinated individuals is low.

Amazing how the ill-informed keep on jabbering about things they dont understand. He rides a motor-bike in deserts then claims he has no accidents when all the time riding the damn thing is an accident for the earth.

It is safe here but the ill-informed read their lousy rags with fake news. We have no definition of a Covid death. Our hospitals are full due to catch up. There are a finite of beds for Covid patients as other patients are also been given treatments. Full vaccination will protect you from requiring hospital treatment.

He is also comparing a one horse town where nothing moves with civilisation.

[Scot Dutchy]

Austria has the right idea:

Austria orders nationwide lockdown for those not fully vaccinated against Covid

Chancellor announces measure that will come into effect on Monday as country faces record numbers of cases

Austria will place millions of people not fully vaccinated against coronavirus in lockdown as of Monday in an effort to deal with a surge in infections, the country’s chancellor has said.

“We must raise the vaccination rate. It is shamefully low,” Alexander Schallenberg told a news conference on Sunday, announcing the measure after a video call with the governors of Austria’s nine provinces. Lockdowns for two of the provinces, Upper Austria and Salzburg, were announced on Friday, but Sunday’s move extends that to the whole country.

Approximately 65% of the population is fully vaccinated against Covid-19, one of the lowest rates in western Europe.

Europe has again become the centre of the Covid-19 pandemic, prompting some governments to consider reimposing unpopular lockdowns.

Many Austrians are sceptical about vaccines, a view encouraged by the far-right Freedom party, the third biggest in parliament.

While the Netherlands is dealing with its surge in infections by imposing a partial lockdown that applies to all, Austria’s conservative-led government has said it wants to avoid imposing further restrictions on those who are fully vaccinated.

Our partial lockdown is political.

[Sean Hayden]

Mac strikes me as well informed and responsible. I'm not sure why his bike rides bother you so much. I'd like to get one but you have to be crazy to ride around here.

[pErvinalia]

Everything bothers Scot Dutchy. He just can't accept others happiness.

[Tero]

Next to the 4k that have died on the road so far this year.

--//--

Are you suggesting there should be no deaths from covid before we move on? If not, what's the number of deaths before you think of covid as another risk you must face, but not one which requires any more vigilance than vaccination, or healthy diet and exercise?

It was up in the original post, where I said jokingly that Covid is not all bad, it will bring funeral jobs.

[Scot Dutchy]

Mac strikes me as well informed and responsible. I'm not sure why his bike rides bother you so much. I'd like to get one but you have to be crazy to ride around here.

He is not well informed so how are you to judge? He understands zilch of Dutch politics. His bike rides are totally irresponsible and if you cant see that then it says all about your judgement.

[Tero]

A doctor from Texas who spread COVID-19 misinformation on her personal Twitter account has had her privileges suspended. 

Dr. Mary Bowden of the Houston Methodist Hospital posted a series of tweets praising the anti-parasitical drug Ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment. She also called vaccine mandates "wrong."