The Coronavirus Thread

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pErvinalia
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:40 am

The vaccines are free in Oz, and I believe in the US too.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:49 am

I have my doubts as it should be free:
Be Aware of Scams

If anyone asks you to pay for access to a COVID-19 vaccine, you can bet it’s a scam. Don’t share your personal or financial information if someone calls, texts, or emails you promising access to a vaccine for an extra fee.

COVID-19 vaccination providers cannot:

Charge you for a vaccine
Charge you directly for any administration fees, copays, or coinsurance
Deny vaccination to anyone who does not have health insurance coverage, is underinsured, or is out of network
Charge an office visit or other fee to the recipient if the only service provided is a COVID-19 vaccination
Require additional services in order for a person to receive a COVID-19 vaccine; however, additional healthcare services can be provided at the same time and billed as appropriate

COVID-19 vaccination providers can:

Seek appropriate reimbursement from the recipient’s plan or program (e.g., private health insurance, Medicare, Medicaid) for a vaccine administration fee
However, providers cannot charge the vaccine recipient the balance of the bill.
Seek appropriate reimbursement for uninsured vaccine recipients from the Health Resources and Services Administration’s COVID-19 Uninsured Programexternal icon.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... -cost.html

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Seabass » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:51 am

JimC wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:47 am
Seabass wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 6:19 am
JimC wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 5:14 am
In more recent times, it would be reasonable to assume that the unvaccinated are most likely the recalcitrant, and also that they are indeed more likely to be die-hard Republicans...
Not necessarily. Polling data shows that Republicans are far more anti-vax than other groups, but in some states, blacks and hispanics trail whites in actual vax rates. I'm not sure what the cause of this disparity is, but if I were to guess, it's probably the usual culprit: poverty. Black and brown people are going to be more likely to be poor, and so less likely to have a car, more likely to have to use public transit (which sucks ass in most of the US), less likely to able to take time off work, less likely to have internet, less likely to have insurance (you don't need insurance to get the jab, but I have to figure a lot of people who don't consume news might not know that?), etc...
Good points, Seabass. Here in Oz, for a variety of reasons, indigenous communities and groups of recent migrants with language issues have been lagging in the vaccination race, for reasons other than idiotic recalcitrance, and more to do with disadvantage and distrust of government...
It looks like my suspicions were in the right ballpark. It comes down to access rather than hesitancy:
The Reason Black Americans Are Getting Vaccinated At A Much Slower Rate Is Not Because They’re Reluctant

The early data we have on vaccination rates is incomplete, but one fact is particularly alarming: Black Americans are getting vaccinated at a much slower rate than their white counterparts. This is troubling given how hard the pandemic has hit Black Americans.

But it’s also concerning because people often misunderstand why the rate is lower. Many are quick to point to a distrust of the medical community, as Black people do have a long history of being ignored or actively mistreated by health care professionals in the U.S. — most notably, in the infamous 40-year-long Tuskegee study, which denied Black men treatment for syphilis so researchers could track the natural progression of the disease. But a recent Pew survey challenges the idea that Black Americans are hesitant to get vaccinated: A majority of Black adults (61 percent) told Pew that they either planned to get a COVID-19 vaccine or have already gotten one, a sharp uptick from the 42 percent who said in November that they planned to get vaccinated.

And this reflects what health experts have told me about this issue. They don’t really think distrust of the vaccine explains the large gaps we’re seeing in vaccination rates. What’s more, blaming the gap wholly on distrust is dangerous because it puts the onus on Black Americans around vaccinations and distracts us from the real reasons why the inoculation rate is lower. “The experience of Black Americans within the U.S. health care system has been extremely troubled to say the least,” said Sean Dickson, the director of health policy at the West Health Policy Center. “But we don’t want to rely on the narrative that Black people aren’t willing to get the vaccine,” he said, adding that he thought the real issue was the lack of investment in vaccine distribution in Black communities.

In fact, a recent NPR analysis found that vaccine hubs, particularly ones in Louisiana, Texas and Alabama, were largely missing from predominantly Black and Hispanic communities, while few whiter neighborhoods were without one. And in a national study conducted in conjunction with the University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy, Dickson found that Black Americans in nearly two dozen urban counties in and around Atlanta, New Orleans and Dallas, among a host of other cities, faced longer driving distances to vaccine centers than white Americans.

Even when vaccine distribution centers are more evenly distributed, researchers find that communities of color are still missing out. Residents from wealthier, predominantly white neighborhoods often claim an outsize share of vaccine appointments in Black and Hispanic neighborhoods, using up the available supply. This has already happened in several states, including in California, where outsiders were misusing a program intended to make vaccine appointments available in communities of color.

The fact that vaccine registration systems are largely online is partly to blame, as there is often a racial divide in who has reliable internet access. Take Washington, D.C., where the ease of signing up virtually made it simpler for wealthier, white people to push out Black people who were trying to get an appointment. The city did move to quickly implement a new sign-up system that offered appointments first to people in ZIP codes with the highest COVID-19 infection and death rates, but some residents said the process still wasn’t helping the people who need the vaccine most.

George Jones, whose D.C.-area nonprofit agency runs a medical clinic, told The New York Times that hardly any of the people coming in for shots at his clinic were regular patients. “Somehow we’ve got to persuade them to use those spots,” he said. Health experts who study medicine and health disparities warn that internet access is emerging as a major determinant of health due to the growing role the internet plays in connecting patients to care, especially during the pandemic. “The question is ‘Who’s going to actually get vaccines?’ — older adults who are tech-savvy, with financial resources and family members to help them, or harder-to-reach populations?” asked Abraham Brody, a professor of nursing and medicine at New York University, in an interview with Kaiser Health News.

Black Americans are also disproportionately likely to work in front-line jobs categorized as essential, which means it’s likely harder for them to request time off to get a vaccine. Some states, like New York, have plans to open, or have already opened, several 24/7 sites. And Dickson told me that one thing more cities could be doing is developing mobile or pop-up vaccination centers that are open during hours convenient for people in the service industry. Some states, like Texas and New York, are already experimenting with mobile pop-up centers. And in Philadelphia, the Black Doctors COVID-19 Consortium is offering walk-in vaccine clinics that don’t require appointments.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... hesitancy/

more info:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/vaccinati ... d=77272753
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by JimC » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:34 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:36 am
Here special teams were set up and worked via the community houses to vaccinate the minority groups which worked extremely well.

Dont you have to pay in certain states for vaccines? Therefore poverty would play a role. Did the poor actually get the vaccine? What control is there?
There is certainly no payment for vaccination in Oz, and from all I've heard, not in the US either. That doesn't stop it being easier for some people than others...
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:48 am

Dutch Australians are the most vaccinated Australians.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Tero » Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:28 am

JimC wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:34 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:36 am
Here special teams were set up and worked via the community houses to vaccinate the minority groups which worked extremely well.

Dont you have to pay in certain states for vaccines? Therefore poverty would play a role. Did the poor actually get the vaccine? What control is there?
There is certainly no payment for vaccination in Oz, and from all I've heard, not in the US either. That doesn't stop it being easier for some people than others...
The other vaccines have a payment. The shingles vaccine for seniors is 2 shots, a few hundred dollars each. Flu shot are cheap, but you pay for the nurse to give you shots.

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Tero » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:25 am

Israeli study does not qualify as proof
Yet it would truly be proof of waning immunity only if the two groups — the winter and spring vaccine recipients — were otherwise similar to each other. If not, the other differences between them might be the real reason for the gap in the Covid rates.

As it turns out, the two groups were different. The first Israelis to have received the vaccine tended to be more affluent and educated. By coincidence, these same groups later were among the first exposed to the Delta variant, perhaps because they were more likely to travel. Their higher infection rate may have stemmed from the new risks they were taking, not any change in their vaccine protection.

Statisticians have a name for this possibility — when topline statistics point to a false conclusion that disappears when you examine subgroups. It’s called Simpson’s Paradox.
(Link: https://nl.nytimes.com/f/a/NYUJEMuLDX1s ... 9tWAQAAAAA)

This paradox may also explain some of the U.S. data that the C.D.C. has cited to justify booster shots. Many Americans began to resume more indoor activities this spring. That more were getting Covid may reflect their newfound Covid exposure (as well as the arrival of Delta), rather than any waning of immunity over time.

‘Where is it?’
Sure enough, other data supports the notion that vaccine immunity is not waning much.

The ratio of positive Covid tests among older adults and children, for example, does not seem to be changing, Dowdy notes. If waning immunity were a major problem, we should expect to see a faster rise in Covid cases among older people (who were among the first to receive shots). And even the Israeli analysis showed that the vaccines continued to prevent serious Covid illness at essentially the same rate as before.
The bottom line
Here’s my best attempt to give you an objective summary of the evidence, free from alarmism — and acknowledging uncertainty:

Immunity does probably wane modestly within the first year of receiving a shot. For this reason, booster shots make sense for vulnerable people, many experts believe. As Dr. Céline Gounder of Bellevue Hospital Center told my colleague Apoorva Mandavilli, the C.D.C.’s data “support giving additional doses of vaccine to highly immunocompromised persons and nursing home residents, not to the general public.”

By David Leonhardt, NYT daily newsletter

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Hermit » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:52 am

JimC wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:34 am
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:36 am
Here special teams were set up and worked via the community houses to vaccinate the minority groups which worked extremely well.

Dont you have to pay in certain states for vaccines? Therefore poverty would play a role. Did the poor actually get the vaccine? What control is there?
There is certainly no payment for vaccination in Oz, and from all I've heard, not in the US either.
The recipients don't pay directly. The taxes they pay do, though.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Aug 30, 2021 11:57 am

Yes, but those too poor to pay taxes don't pay anything for the vaccine. That is, the ultimate cost for the vaccine is progressive in nature.
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:15 pm

Medical gerrymandering?
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:45 pm


[...]

A 30-year-old Texas man who earlier this summer organized an anti-mask rally has died after catching COVID-19, his pregnant wife announced.

Caleb Wallace died Saturday after weeks on a ventilator at a San Angelo hospital, the San Angelo Standard Times reported. His wife, Jessica Wallace, posted the news to the family’s GoFundMe page.

[...]

In the video, Wallace said his group was “fed up” with mandatory coronavirus precautions in what was described as “COVID-19 tyranny.” His group organized a rally to fight for “the basic rights of breathing free air, moving about freely, going into businesses without being harassed about a mask.”

[...]

“My health has nothing to do with you. As harsh as that sounds, but our constitutional, fundamental rights protect that. Nothing else.” Wallace said, according to the publication. “I’m sorry if that comes off as blunt and that I don’t care. I do care. I care more about freedom than I do for your personal health.”

[...]
Read more here: https://www.heraldsun.com/news/coronavi ... rylink=cpy

So, who pays for the weeks he spent in ICU?

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Tero » Mon Aug 30, 2021 3:31 pm

Rare breed soon, antimask anitvaxxers with a soap box or radio spot to spread the warning.

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Seabass » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:26 pm

Watch/listen to this Republican and tell me he's not a fascist.


video: https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/stat ... 2683279362

Image
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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:32 pm

Image

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Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Tero » Mon Aug 30, 2021 8:03 pm

That horse owner will just take it himself and allow horse to suffer worms.

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