AmeriKKKa

[pErvinalia]

Not being dead is an advantage.

[JimC]

Real for an individual white homeless in what way Jim? You've pointed out that he's part of a group which statistically is less likely to suffer some fate. How does that translate into an advantage for him?

What sort of assumptions can he make given this information? Can he even assume that he's likely to be okay?

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes. For you, it seems that an individual's direct experience is what matters (a very American position, may I add...). In that sense, as I conceded earlier, the existence of a statistical differential in their favour would make little difference to the state of mind of an individual white homeless person.

However, I was talking of a comparative advantage/disadvantage in a statistical sense, which has its own validity. It also impinges on an individual's lived experience in a probabilistic way; if one group has a statistically significant increased probability of being assaulted, that has meaning, whether perceived by individuals in either group or not.

Finally, a little more on my thoughts on the term "privilege". To me, the term is highly emotional, and its frequent use in describing the delightful lives of the upper class/ extremely wealthy makes it a poor choice in commenting neutrally and objectively on real comparative advantage. The important thing, of course, is setting policies which actually reduce comparative disadvantage...

[Sean Hayden]

I believe the answer is no, he can't assume that he'll likely be okay.

More importantly I don't see a way for him to work this abstraction to his advantage on the streets. It's simply incorrect to view him as reaping the benefits of white privilege in his current state.

--//--

It is meaningful though, it's something useful for making policy.

[Seabass]

Real for an individual white homeless in what way Jim? You've pointed out that he's part of a group which statistically is less likely to suffer some fate. How does that translate into an advantage for him?

What sort of assumptions can he make given this information? Can he even assume that he's likely to be okay?

Think about what you're doing. You're reducing this down to what an individual white man feels. By this reasoning you can just write off all racism as irrelevant. "A white guy doesn't get hired for a job he wants. What does it matter to him that statistically, black people go through this experience far more frequently than white people?"

If you throw statistics out the window, then basically racism doesn't exist.

[Seabass]

Sean, have you ever read any non-fiction from black authors about the black experience in America? James Baldwin, Ida B. Wells, Frederick Douglass? Did you read that chapter I posted, "Racism drained the pool"?

So is that a 'no'?

[Sean Hayden]

Look, I know white privilege exists. One of the most glaring examples I've experienced is the difference in treatment between white and non-white inmates by staff.

My experience with it helps me to see an important area where blacks are disadvantaged everywhere: their relationship with authority.

Even our schools show the pattern. Young blacks are disciplined more often and more severely.

--//--

I'm not doing away with racism or privilege, just saying it's complicated...

[Sean Hayden]

Sean, have you ever read any non-fiction from black authors about the black experience in America? James Baldwin, Ida B. Wells, Frederick Douglass? Did you read that chapter I posted, "Racism drained the pool"?

So is that a 'no'?

No, I did not read the chapter. Yes I've read accounts of slavery.

I won't be paying any more attention to this line of questioning. If I'm out the club, oh well.

[Hermit]

No, they may have accepted a concept of whiteness which distorts the effects of privilege such that they can't acknowledge being so bad off.

Sorry, I still don't get what you're trying to say. As I mentioned a short while ago, I feel particularly dense today. "They" meaning "white" and "black" respectively? You need to spell it out for me.

There are many facts about life which aren't particularly important. Being less likely to be assaulted as a white homeless person being one of them, to the homeless person of course.

Quite so. What is important in relation to white privilege is that there are a lot more black homeless than white homeless, and black homeless people are treated worse than white homeless people.

I hope they don't adopt your conception of whiteness, and its privilege, for their sake.

Tell me more. Start with telling me what you think my conception of whiteness, and its privilege are, please.

go on and compare my thinking to Yellowknife's bullshit if it makes you feel better.

The similarity in the instance I cited actually made me feel sadder. On the bright side the comparison between your thinking and that of our member from Yellowknife is only comparable in that one instance, which, now that I have mentioned it, does make me feel better.

[pErvinalia]

I'm not doing away with racism or privilege, just saying it's complicated...

The problem is that the article you originally posted complicated it by arguing against a strawman.

[pErvinalia]

No, they may have accepted a concept of whiteness which distorts the effects of privilege such that they can't acknowledge being so bad off.

Sorry, I still don't get what you're trying to say. As I mentioned a short while ago, I feel particularly dense today. "They" meaning "white" and "black" respectively? You need to spell it out for me.

White.

[Sean Hayden]

Well, you're feeling dense and I'm tired so a better example will have to wait.

[JimC]

I have a strong feeling that the differences in recent posts are actually minor quibbles about the meanings of certain words...

[Svartalf]

I defend people. That I have an interest in generating an authentic sense of whiteness is not a fault.

An authentic sense of whiteness, whatever that is, does not negate the existence of white privilege.

Fuck white privilege, immigrants from afriky who never worked a day in this country get fucktons of public assistance money and live better than I do.

[Svartalf]

What the hell is an "authentic sense of whiteness"?

Understanding the meaning and importance of gracious living?

[Svartalf]

Not being dead is an advantage.

You know, given what a shit sandwich my life has been, I often wonder if it would not have been better had I been stillborn.