Media Bias

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Re: Media Bias

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:52 am

JimC wrote:
Tue Mar 18, 3017 3:27 pm
So, someone from Bumfuck Canada knows more about potential legal issues in the US election than the entire US legal system, including a conservative majority Supreme Court...

Yeah, right, and Boris Johnson understands quantum theory...
The left has a bit of a problem here - and when I say 'the left' I just mean everyone who isn't explicitly invested in the right -> alt-right.

The right are very effective at creating stories which resonate emotionally with certain demographics. These stories validate people's feelings (sometimes rightly, sometimes not) that things are basically chaotic, out-of-control, rigged, unjust etc, and then these stories invariably cast around for some person, object or idea to blame - a judge, the government, cancel-culture etc. "You have every right to be unhappy about X, and this is why."

Responding to those narratives with plain facts doesn't really touch those who already feel outraged or have some vague, but nonetheless real sense of frustration or injustice. In fact, presenting solid information which challenges these narratives often causes disquiet in those who already know what "I believe...", which in turn feeds into their feelings of frustration, grievance, outrage (and sometimes even violent outrage) which they've associated with judges, the government, or cancel-culture etc.

It doesn't matter that Hasbro weren't forced by the pink-haired-lesbian-feminazi-woke-cancel-culture lobby to drop the 'Mr' from the Mr Potato Head brand, or that Joe Biden didn't demand that Dr Seuss books were banned, or that the amount of election fraud is vanishingly small or that courts didn't refuse to accept evidence thereof, or that levels of violent crime are falling, that Obama is actually a US citizen, that universities aren't a hotbed of Marxist radicalisation, that millennials aren't self-centred whiny snowflakes, that extending equal rights to LGBTQ+ people doesn't limit or take away rights from others, that certain areas aren't no-go Sharia law enclaves, that you can say you're a patriot without being arrested, or whatever. What matters is that people feel that these things are true and that there's enough support within one's community or society to validate those feelings.

This is not to say that the left are immune to these kinds of narratives either. We're all susceptible to advertising and propaganda. If we weren't we wouldn't be subjected to so much of it! We've all seen those adverts where someone in a clean lab wearing a white coat tells us there's something dangerous going on in our mouth which we're not aware of, and how this-or-that particular brand of toothpaste can mitigate that danger and assuage those inculcated fears. What we have to look out for is when politics is operated on the same principle - inculcating disquiet or fear about X which the politician or party then claims not only to have a unique insight into but also the monopoly on what to do about it.

In short, the right are very good at getting people's attention and holding on to it, and countering that with facts isn't necessarily a good response, doesn't distract people from 'their truth', and isn't really working.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Hermit » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:46 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:52 am
JimC wrote:
Tue Mar 18, 3017 3:27 pm
So, someone from Bumfuck Canada knows more about potential legal issues in the US election than the entire US legal system, including a conservative majority Supreme Court...

Yeah, right, and Boris Johnson understands quantum theory...
The left has a bit of a problem here - and when I say 'the left' I just mean everyone who isn't explicitly invested in the right -> alt-right.

The right are very effective at creating stories which resonate emotionally with certain demographics. These stories validate people's feelings (sometimes rightly, sometimes not) that things are basically chaotic, out-of-control, rigged, unjust etc, and then these stories invariably cast around for some person, object or idea to blame - a judge, the government, cancel-culture etc. "You have every right to be unhappy about X, and this is why."

Responding to those narratives with plain facts doesn't really touch those who already feel outraged or have some vague, but nonetheless real sense of frustration or injustice. In fact, presenting information which challenges these narratives often causes disquiet in those who already know what "I believe...", which in turn feeds into their feelings of frustration, grievance, outrage (and sometimes even violent outrage) which they've associated with judges, the government, or cancel-culture etc.

It doesn't matter that Hasbro weren't forced by the pink-haired-lesbian-feminazi-woke-cancel-culture lobby to drop the 'Mr' from the Mr Potato Head brand, or that Joe Biden didn't demand that Dr Seuss books were banned, or that the amount of election fraud is vanishingly small or that courts didn't refuse to accept solid evidence thereof, or that levels of violent crime are falling, that Obama is actually a US citizen, that universities aren't a hotbed of Marxist radicalisation, that millennials aren't self-centred whiny snowflaks, that extending equal rights to LGBTQ+ people doesn't limit or take away rights from others, that certain areas aren't no-go Sharia law enclaves, that you can say you're a patriot without being arrested, or whatever. What matters is that people feel that these things are true and that there's enough support within one's community or society to validate those feelings.

This is not to say that the left are immune to these kinds of narratives either. We're all susceptible to advertising and propaganda. If we weren't we wouldn't be subjected to so much of it. We've all seen those adverts where someone in a clean lab wearing a white coat tells us there's something dangerous going on in our mouth which we're not aware of and how this-or-that particular brand of toothpaste can mitigate that danger and assuage those inculcated fears. What we have to look out for is when politics is operated on the same principle - inculcating disquiet or fear about X which the politician or party then claims not only to have a unique insight into but also the monopoly on what to do about it.

In short, the right are very good at getting people's attention and holding on to it, and countering that with facts isn't necessarily a good response, doesn't distract people from 'their truth', and isn't really working.
:this:

Added to those difficulties are people who evade discussing the issues they themselves raise. Our member from Yellowknife is a textbook example of one.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:57 am

Conservatives like Cunt respond to fear more than those on the left. They've got more active amygdala.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:00 am

Again, that's an example of a fact which doesn't really touch on what conservative-minded people feel about the world or why they feel it.
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Media Bias

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:03 am

Conservatives are afraid of change.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:20 am

I don't think that's true. Conservative governments around the world have become the most radical parties over the last 30-40 or so.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Media Bias

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:21 am

That's just entrenching their power. Fear of losing power to some other group.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:13 am

Perhaps, but in doing that they've been quite radical haven't they - they've changed quite a lot of things, from tax to welfare to education and health to employment law etc etc?
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Hermit » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:15 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:03 am
Conservatives are afraid of change.
Conservatives are not afraid of change as such. More accurately, today's conservatives don't like the changes they have seen over the past several decades. They have become very much aware that not changing anything is not an option. That is a luxury previous conservatives enjoyed. All they had to do is to, as their label spells out, conserve society as it was at the time; Mother in the kitchen and bedroom. Father knows best. Children only spoke when they were spoken to. Nobody minded when a cop kicked some obstreperous delinquent up the backside. A bit of discipline, y'all.

Doing nothing won't bring any of this imagined Acadia back. In wanting it back, today's conservatives are no longer conservatives in the literal sense. They have become avid and enthusiastic proponents of change - as long as it is their flavour.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Cunt » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:32 am

Hermit wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:35 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:22 am
And I didn't say what I based my belief on
Yes, you did. Your belief is based on a Youtube video made by someone you call a comedian. This contrasts with your unwillingness to believe that Chauvin killed Floyd "before the court does". You adopt different standards to suit your bias.
As a thumb rule, if the corporations like amazon censor something, it raises my suspicions. Being from a highly compliant culture like Austrailia or Germany, I understand you approaching things differently.

As to the evidence Crowder presented, I summarized it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

I can only observe as you try to show some sloppy cunt is wrong, while studiously ignoring the evidence Crowder lays out and quantifies for you.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Hermit » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:36 am

Cunt wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:32 am
Hermit wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:35 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:22 am
And I didn't say what I based my belief on
Yes, you did. Your belief is based on a Youtube video made by someone you call a comedian. This contrasts with your unwillingness to believe that Chauvin killed Floyd "before the court does". You adopt different standards to suit your bias.
As a thumb rule, if the corporations like amazon censor something, it raises my suspicions. Being from a highly compliant culture like Austrailia or Germany, I understand you approaching things differently.

As to the evidence Crowder presented, I summarized it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

I can only observe as you try to show some sloppy cunt is wrong, while studiously ignoring the evidence Crowder lays out and quantifies for you.
You totally missed the point, or at least pretended to.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Media Bias

Post by Cunt » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:39 am

You keep pointing out some sloppy cunt is wrong. It probably makes you feel smart.

Stay away from Crowders claims though. He is organized and smart. Wouldn't want to have to address that.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Hermit » Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:05 am

Cunt wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:39 am
You keep pointing out some sloppy cunt is wrong. It probably makes you feel smart.

Stay away from Crowders claims though. He is organized and smart. Wouldn't want to have to address that.
Thanks for the evasion.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Sean Hayden » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:53 pm

I've already addressed Crowder's claims, I don't think everyone doing so is necessary or helpful unless you've got something new to add. I'm not sure why he keeps going back to it.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Sean Hayden » Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:21 pm

Cunt wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:13 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:56 pm
Thanks, Sean. Can you be more specific?
Sure. Take point 1 from above.

1. Biden's inability to inspire people is offset by Trump's ability to inspire hate. Many people voted against Trump rather than for Biden. //--you insert counter here

--//--
I said it earlier, in a shittier way, that Trump IS the most popular president ever - because of how many people voted BECAUSE of him, not FOR him. (many anti-Trump votes were inspired by his hair alone)

Regarding the examples of fraud brought up by Crowder, I had brought up how difficult the job of deciding between actual fraud that would matter (a fake vote) and just a fake address. But the more important issue for us there is determining how much more of any real fraud occurred now vs during any other election. Was there a reason to believe more happened now than then? Crowder certainly didn't provide that.
He has been very careful about claims he makes, or so he says, because of how strict youtube et al are about any misstep.

They weren't as strict about calling Trump out for rigging an election...

Do we know if someone else isn't already responsible for uncovering more than Crowder did, but who's job it is to do so after every election, and therefore they didn't think anything of it? --just some guy thinking: Jesus Crowder, I can show you fraud! :biggrin:

--//--
Maybe, but the fact that a comic is the one bringing the best evidence forward is kind of weird.

Fucking Mayor Rudy, who SHOULD by all accounts be a very fucking good lawyer (he earned a bit of a name for himself) sells cigars and gold on a podcast...

Starting to think I should get some cigars.

You seem to enjoy these lines of reasoning. Have you considered tackling the conspiracy from the other side? It's very human and complicated as fuck. Assume Trump made it up. How did he get it going to the extent that he did? Why is it so hard to undo now that it's happened?
I think, if true, he used q (a bolder statement than I like about that slippery subject) to test run various facts, twisted into useable ways. Those successes (social study of which could be done by anyone, but the authors of the experiment would get the most out of it) led to firing up certain groups with the learned techniques, and as with the various Jesus conspiracies, they are resistant naturally, to falsification.

So yes, I've thought of it from the other side. When I started talking to you guys here about q, it isn't because I believed it, but because I found it so believable. I thought that the thing was significant, and speculated there were connections inside the white house.

Asking about it might get me tagged by some as a q believer, when all I really believe about it is that it was more significant than the notice it was getting at the time.

Now your turn - would you consider the conspiracy from the other side? Lets pretend that the wealthiest companies in history, got WAY wealthier as a result of the lockdown, and something sinister (like war profiteering but with pandemic) was the unsavoury way they got their win.
Crowder may be careful, but he still makes mistakes. Going back to the problem of separating fraud from error --something Crowder acknowledges is difficult-- his own research contains the kind of errors we'd need to rule out e.g. typos which lead him to the wrong conclusion about addresses. Have you seen the video of his first example contrasted with a google map of the same address? It's funny. He has this picture of an empty lot where apartments are supposed to be, and he's like, see, lol, maybe there was a controlled demolition, wink, wink. But if his "guy on the ground" had turned around--literally, right behind him--is a 4 story apartment building. It's a claim of fraud that rest on a single digit, a 1 where a 2 should be. :lol:
The latest fad is a poverty social. Every woman must wear calico,
and every man his old clothes. In addition each is fined 25 cents if
he or she does not have a patch on his or her clothing. If these
parties become a regular thing, says an exchange, won't there be
a good chance for newspaper men to shine?

The Silver State. 1894.

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