You reap what you sow, unless you're a socialist.

[Cunt]

I see the focus on blaming society as providing the means to justify not helping people.

--//--

You either help people or you don't Cunt. There's no science of life which might guide your decisions here. That's why I find our Tweeter's "paycheck to paycheck" comment so disagreeable. It invites that kind of analysis.

I help people AND I don't.

How could it be any other way?

You have to limit the amount of people you help, don't you? That limit (especially nationally) is what I don't hear pro-socialists describe well.

I'm one of the pro-socialists who can't describe that limit, by the way.

[Sean Hayden]

You don't spend a lot of time reading socialists do you? I don't.

Funding limits the amount of help available. If you're saying socialists don't talk about managing budgets, I'm afraid you're just wrong. (I know Hermit, we don't actually have socialists here. )

[Brian Peacock]

If we look at the lives of the well-off we will see similar failures. A man buys an expensive house just before he's laid off, the housing market implodes and he's forced to sell for thousands less than he paid and go broke in the process. He could have bought a cheaper house, been more realistic about his earning potential going forward, or less concerned with impressing Miami etc.

In both situations opportunities will have been missed.

To be honest, that sounds a bit teleological.

[Sean Hayden]

What do you mean?

[Brian Peacock]

In the way your example seemed to cast the end point--debt, job loss, market failure etc--as an inevitable consequences of missed opportunities.

What effective control does the bloke really have over his job security, or the wider economic conditions of the housing market?

If you decide to drive home the pretty way because it's a nice day and you have a blowout on an isolated country road and end up in the creek trapped in your car covered in petrol you only appear to have missed an opportunity (made a bad decision) to avoid being in such a precarious position retrospectively. Even then that kind of assessment isn't going to help you when you need it - which is right now.

Everything appears to be inevitable after it's happened.

[pErvinalia]

If we look at the lives of the well-off we will see similar failures. A man buys an expensive house just before he's laid off, the housing market implodes and he's forced to sell for thousands less than he paid and go broke in the process. He could have bought a cheaper house, been more realistic about his earning potential going forward, or less concerned with impressing Miami etc.

In both situations opportunities will have been missed.

What are the opportunities the poor and disadvantaged have missed?

[pErvinalia]

You don't spend a lot of time reading socialists do you? I don't.

Funding limits the amount of help available. If you're saying socialists don't talk about managing budgets, I'm afraid you're just wrong. (I know Hermit, we don't actually have socialists here. )

What's with the false dichotomy? (You reap what you sow - libertarian; unless you're a socialist)

[Sean Hayden]

In the way your example seemed to cast the end point--debt, job loss, market failure etc--as an inevitable consequences of missed opportunities.

What effective control does the bloke really have over his job security, or the wider economic conditions of the housing market?

If you decide to drive home the pretty way because it's a nice day and you have a blowout on an isolated country road and end up in the creek trapped in your car covered in petrol you only appear to have missed an opportunity (made a bad decision) to avoid being in such a precarious position retrospectively. Even then that kind of assessment isn't going to help you when you need it - which is right now.

Everything appears to be inevitable after it's happened.

Maybe, but I wouldn't place buying an expensive house after a recent promotion in that category.

We're in agreement about the unpredictability of life though. In fact, it's the nature of life that makes me suspicious of the dangers lurking behind our Twitterer's response to the crisis i.e. people are in this position because they're poor.

It invites an analysis of their actions, and undoubtedly we will discover where they could have made better choices.

Could've except for that unpredictability of life thing.

--//--

I read recently about how some studies are showing that people who seem to have incredible willpower actually just don't want the same things. --ha, imagine if that's true?

Perhaps you aren't so wise as you are boring...

[pErvinalia]

By the way, Laklak has gone all survivalist after this Texas thing. We've got a new Seth in the making.

[Sean Hayden]

When's he coming back?

[Sean Hayden]

If we look at the lives of the well-off we will see similar failures. A man buys an expensive house just before he's laid off, the housing market implodes and he's forced to sell for thousands less than he paid and go broke in the process. He could have bought a cheaper house, been more realistic about his earning potential going forward, or less concerned with impressing Miami etc.

In both situations opportunities will have been missed.

What are the opportunities the poor and disadvantaged have missed?

We would need to look into individual cases. But it's reasonable to believe people without drinking water --who aren't homeless-- missed an opportunity to fill a gallon every time they finished one of milk for example.

[Brian Peacock]

...

Perhaps you aren't so wise as you are boring...

You might have a point there.

[Sean Hayden]

...it's a neat thought anyway. All those stuffy bastids believing they've mastered the difficulties
of life...

[Cunt]

In the way your example seemed to cast the end point--debt, job loss, market failure etc--as an inevitable consequences of missed opportunities.

What effective control does the bloke really have over his job security, or the wider economic conditions of the housing market?

If you decide to drive home the pretty way because it's a nice day and you have a blowout on an isolated country road and end up in the creek trapped in your car covered in petrol you only appear to have missed an opportunity (made a bad decision) to avoid being in such a precarious position retrospectively. Even then that kind of assessment isn't going to help you when you need it - which is right now.

Everything appears to be inevitable after it's happened.

We are all victims of physics.

[JimC]

If we look at the lives of the well-off we will see similar failures. A man buys an expensive house just before he's laid off, the housing market implodes and he's forced to sell for thousands less than he paid and go broke in the process. He could have bought a cheaper house, been more realistic about his earning potential going forward, or less concerned with impressing Miami etc.

In both situations opportunities will have been missed.

What are the opportunities the poor and disadvantaged have missed?

We would need to look into individual cases. But it's reasonable to believe people without drinking water --who aren't homeless-- missed an opportunity to fill a gallon every time they finished one of milk for example.

Maybe there is a case to be made for schools to take some time discussing with students the concept of prudent preparation...