The Coronavirus Thread

[Brian Peacock]

Macron: AstraZeneca vaccine seems ‘quasi-ineffective’ on older people.

PARIS — French President Emmanual Macron said Friday the AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine appeared to be "quasi-ineffective" on people older than 65 — just hours before the EU's drugs regulator approved it for use on all adults.

"The real problem on AstraZeneca is that it doesn’t work the way we were expecting it to," Macron told a group of reporters, including POLITICO, in Paris. "We’re waiting for the EMA [European Medicines Agency] results, but today everything points to thinking it is quasi-ineffective on people older than 65, some say those 60 years or older."

Later in the day, the EMA gave the vaccine the green light. It said: "There are not yet enough results in older participants (over 55 years old) to provide a figure for how well the vaccine will work in this group. However, protection is expected, given that an immune response is seen in this age group and based on experience with other vaccines; as there is reliable information on safety in this population, EMA’s scientific experts considered that the vaccine can be used in older adults."

German experts said Thursday that people aged 65 or older should not be given the AstraZeneca coronavirus jab, dealing another blow to European vaccination efforts. The draft recommendation from a committee that advises the country’s public health institute stated that more data is needed to determine the effectiveness of the vaccine in this age group.

AstraZeneca rejected the German experts’ view, stating that the latest analysis of the clinical trial data in fact supports efficacy in those over 65 and that this information is expected to be published by the EMA in the coming days. A spokesperson added that reports of efficacy being low in adults over 65 is “not an accurate reflection of the totality of the data.”

Macron said problems with the AstraZeneca jab will complicate the vaccination strategy in the EU, given that it is largely based on prioritizing vaccinating the senior population and healthcare workers. He said another unforeseen twist was that the vaccines that are more complicated to produce and store — those based on the mRNA technology that had never been used before to produce a vaccine — are the ones that appear to perform best.

"What no one foresaw, which is both wonderful and one of the aspects of this crisis, is that the vaccines that worked best were the most complicated… meaning in this crisis we’re saying the Twingo is taking longer to produce than the Tesla that we had never produced before," he said, comparing the basic Renault model with Tesla's electric car....

Apparently about 30% of Frenchies think the vaccine is a hoax.

[Tero]

Well sure! When you get a free vaccine, one that mostly other tax payers paid for, you want the best one.

[Cunt]

There is a bit of mocking around the web, suggesting that the next covid indignity imposed by governments, will be anal swabs as a test.

It might be true. I can never tell. The world is always more ridiculous than I predict.

Anyway, a friend recently 'mooned' me via text, with eyes drawn on her ass. I am predicting that, if the covid test goes to anal swab, that our dear loving citizens will draw silly stuff on their cheeks, to cheer up the health care workers.

[NineBerry]

Anal swaps can be used in certain scenarios but aren't useful in a general screening strategy. The infection happens in the respiratory tract first and infectious virus particles only leave the body through the respiratory tract. So, this is the place where to do general screening. You will not be able to find the virus in stool until late into the disease period.

Anal swaps can be useful in these two scenarios:

* Adults that show typical severe symptoms but samples from the upper respiratory tract come back as negative. Taking samples from the stool might be easier in this case than trying to get samples from the lower respiratory tract.

* With very young children, taking swaps from the throat may not be practical because they may not cooperate. In this case, taking stool samples might be easier.

[Cunt]

You will not be able to find the virus in stool until late into the disease period.

Our local health care 'sniffers' who hunt this disease are sampling effluent from every community.

...so sneaking up on it.

Anal swaps can be useful in these two scenarios:

* Adults that show typical severe symptoms but samples from the upper respiratory tract come back as negative. Taking samples from the stool might be easier in this case than trying to get samples from the lower respiratory tract.

* With very young children, taking swaps from the throat may not be practical because they may not cooperate. In this case, taking stool samples might be easier.

Oh, don't be so shy just because you are old. Get some durable, non-toxic ass-paint and make the world a brighter place!

[Cunt]

We are talking about the corona virus.

Yes, and they had comments on that. One is that they leave the possibility open that it may have been a lab leak. They leave wilder ones on the table, too, but not with very high probability. If I recall correctly, 'deliberate release' was at 1%. They also pointed out that if it was a deliberate release, it probably wasn't the Wuhan lab trying to set themselves up...

I haven't ruled anything out yet, but I'm sure the highly paid news anchors will tell only the truth, and it will be uncluttered by politics or vulgar motivations like money.

Have you read all the recent articles by virologists about the evolution of this virus, in magazines like NewScientist?

I have.

The conclusions of all professionals studying this issue is that the biochemical details of the spike protein, and the genetic details of the virus itself point to a natural origin, almost certainly via bats. They have ruled out any human genetic engineering as a source.

I don't know whether Cnut has ever worked in a lab, never mind one that has high security protocols such as the Wuhan one. Should there be a leak, it is most probable that measures would be in place to report and mitigate. That is standard.

The likelyhood would be that it is a conclusion based on ignorance and prejudice.

It's been days, but I still don't know which conclusion you were going on about here.

moving on...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... p-BB1dgxwZ

The Next Revolution' host breaks down the evidence linking COVID-19 to U.S. funded gain-of-function research in Wuhan.

I can't watch the vid yet, but I'm going to try over lunchtime. This looks like it might be interesting to Bainrow.

[Sean Hayden]

He spends too much time poisoning the well. It's unnecessary. The points raised, if true, are good enough.

1. The Wuhan lab was performing gain of function research

2. The same lab had identified the closest known strain to the current pandemic strain prior to starting its gain of function research

3. It's possible therefore that the pandemic strain is the earlier discovered one which had been manipulated in the Wuhan lab

[Sean Hayden]

They finally called to confirm my second shot for tomorrow. I was getting worried they had given it away and was feeling mighty Karen like.

[Cunt]

Congrats! Take photos if you grow a third thumb somewhere.

He spends too much time poisoning the well. It's unnecessary. The points raised, if true, are good enough.

1. The Wuhan lab was performing gain of function research

2. The same lab had identified the closest known strain to the current pandemic strain prior to starting its gain of function research

3. It's possible therefore that the pandemic strain is the earlier discovered one which had been manipulated in the Wuhan lab

If you start agreeing with me, that ought to be a red flag.

I've heard this same stuff for quite awhile, but don't know how to 'vet' it well enough. The sources are dismissed by modern censorship, which uses algorythmic opprobrium to manipulate opinions about disfavourable characters.

[Joe]

Congrats! Take photos if you grow a third thumb somewhere.

He spends too much time poisoning the well. It's unnecessary. The points raised, if true, are good enough.

1. The Wuhan lab was performing gain of function research

2. The same lab had identified the closest known strain to the current pandemic strain prior to starting its gain of function research

3. It's possible therefore that the pandemic strain is the earlier discovered one which had been manipulated in the Wuhan lab

If you start agreeing with me, that ought to be a red flag.

I've heard this same stuff for quite awhile, but don't know how to 'vet' it well enough. The sources are dismissed by modern censorship, which uses algorythmic opprobrium to manipulate opinions about disfavourable characters.

Well, they claim to be censored, but here they are on a popular TV show, so it's hard to entirely buy that they are being shutout. They have 65 episodes of their stream after all, and haven't been shutdown by their web service provider.

I enjoyed the latest episode. It was interesting to hear them explain their thinking, but I don't think they are "steelmanning" what they call the consensus on the lab leak hypothesis. As Jim has pointed out, there is ongoing research on the origin of the virus that suggests a natural evolution of the current virus, as well as Furin cleavage sites being common in coronaviruses, which they don't address.

I'm not too concerned by this, since they emphasize that the lab leak is a hypothesis, as opposed to a theory, so their call for investigation makes sense, especially as Sean points out, there is a lab researching coronavirus right there in Wuhan.

[JimC]

Evidence suggests that, to some extent, what you learn under a certain amount of stress is retained more securely than what you might try to learn when you're relaxed and comfortable. Which is why I always read a text book standing in the splits position over a bucket of live lobsters.

Really?

Most of my reading these days takes place as I sip a G & T...

[Joe]

Evidence suggests that, to some extent, what you learn under a certain amount of stress is retained more securely than what you might try to learn when you're relaxed and comfortable. Which is why I always read a text book standing in the splits position over a bucket of live lobsters.

Really?

Most of my reading these days takes place as I sip a G & T...

I have to say I favor your approach, Jim.

[Brian Peacock]

I can't learn algebra without that snapping sound!

[JimC]

An excellent article about the value of vaccination:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-04/ ... s/13114344

It's a sunny morning here in the Austrian Alps. There is half a metre of snow in our garden, with one half-finished igloo in the middle of it, abandoned by my three kids when the temperature hit minus-10.

There's a cup of English Breakfast tea and a piece of Vegemite toast beside me. And my left upper arm is, I'll admit it, a little bit sore. Why? I thought you'd never ask…

Thanks to my job as a doctor in a small regional hospital in Tirol, yesterday I received the Pfizer COVID vaccine. And although you might think that I resent the residual muscle ache (just a normal post-vaccination tenderness, no other symptoms), I actually kind of love it. My fingers keep finding it and pressing it, like a kid with a bruise.

Because it reminds me of what it means.

It means that my body's cells are ingesting the genetic material (called mRNA) from the vaccine, decoding it and making the COVID spike proteins on their surfaces.

It means that my body's immune system is, as I type these very words, encountering those spike proteins for the first time, recognising them as foreign intruders, and mounting an attack on them.

It means my body is actively creating custom-made antibodies which will stick to the spike proteins and help disable and eliminate those infected cells.

And best of all, it means any future invasions of real virus particles won't stand a chance, because my body will remember those spike proteins from the vaccination and — like flicking a switch — simply pump out floods of the same antibodies it made last time, resulting in a coordinated and speedy attack.

Science is just so bloody cool.

One of my best friends here in Austria is a musician with four kids. She is one of the kindest souls I know.

She also doesn't believe in vaccination. For the sake of social harmony, we always avoid the topic when it arises (we are both big believers in the general principle, "live and let live").

However, I want to say to her that when her husband has sudden-onset chest pain, it's me who she brings him to in the emergency department. It's me and my medical knowledge she is putting her trust in when she asks me to find out what's wrong and treat him. So why doesn't she trust that same medical knowledge when he's healthy?

I want to tell her that I love her soul. That she is more patient and kind than I could ever be. But that her anti-vax views are contradicting that entirely. Because to not vaccinate is not just a personal decision: it's a big F-YOU to all the people in your community.

Sure, you might not care about getting measles or the flu or COVID (even though you should; have I told you about the otherwise very fit and healthy 46-year-old from my ward, who has been on the ICU with COVID since November and is currently awaiting a lung transplant if he doesn't die first?).

But you're right, chances are that if you're healthy, and get COVID, you will barely feel it. Hold up, though — your argument also applies to getting a vaccine: you are healthy, so in all likelihood you will barely feel it.

The problem is that we humans are suckers for the status quo. When life is good, we're hardwired to coast along, and not do anything to disrupt that. It's only when shit (like our health) hits the fan, that we suddenly desperately want someone to DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to make it better again.

So why get the vaccine when we're all pictures of health? Let me count the reasons.

Even though I may not know all of the ins and outs of this particular vaccine, or the big-business pressures and deals undoubtedly going on behind closed doors, I know that there is a well-established and rigorous independent regulatory system in place to make sure the experts are held accountable and deliver a safe and effective product.

History has shown us, time and time again, that vaccines are the single most effective way to stop pandemics. Have you ever wondered why anti-vaxxers are rarely over the age of 70? Because most of our grandparents remember the devastation of infectious diseases like polio and how massively vaccination helped.

Selfishly, I don't want to get as sick as the man trying to outpace death waiting a set of new lungs. And because I don't want my grandparents to either, by me inadvertently giving the virus to them.

On purely practical level, I want our lives to return to normal. We are on our third hard lockdown here (the 23rd week of home schooling since last March) and I can tell you, the days I work on the COVID ward are a holiday compared to home schooling two primary schoolers with a toddler in tow. I want restaurants and hotels and shops to open up and make jobs again.

I want to fly back to Australia and see my family.

Above all, I will do it because of 6-year-old Sophie. She's on the leukaemia ward, locked up in there for months with only her mum to visit. She is still waiting on chemotherapy that hasn't been able to be administered due to COVID delays.

I don't know Sophie personally — I've only heard about her through my colleagues on that ward — but I don't want to be the type of person who ignores her just because I don't know her. There are thousands of Sophies.

So yep. Even though my arm is admittedly a little bit sore today, I will be getting my booster in three weeks. And even though I hate doctors' waiting rooms, and even though my toddler (and probably his older sisters too) will definitely scream at the jab in the arm, it's way more important to me to put Sophie's needs before my own kids' comfort.

That's just the kind of person I want to be.

[Brian Peacock]

Those poor AO tennis players having to train by knocking their balls against the walls of their hotel rooms, eh? Seems Victoria isn't pestilence-free after all.