All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

[rainbow]

38E628CA-06D5-4FD8-B7F1-711AFAE5F5A3.jpeg

Obviously fake.
The person who wrote this has no idea of True Organic-oriented Vegan Socialism (TOOVS)

Real agenda:

1. Virtual hugging
2. Privilege knowledge session
3. Re-education of cis-members
4. Tofu and spliff break (optional)
5. Election of collective committee
6. Talk on alternatively-abled, queer emotional empowerment within white male dominated oppressive matrices.
7. Re-election of committee due to late arrival of the non-conventional sleeping community.
8. Spliff break (non-optional)
9. Anti-Capitalism sing-along.
10. Discussion on shoe wearing and animal oppression.
11. Close

[pErvinalia]

I think the people who vote for him this time can be considered aspiring fascists. First time they might have bought the lies about jobs and swamps, but they've seen the true Trump for the last 4 years. There's no more excuses now. Other than exceptional stupidity bordering on retardation, I guess.

[Seabass]

I think the people who vote for him this time can be considered aspiring fascists. First time they might have bought the lies about jobs and swamps, but they've seen the true Trump for the last 4 years. There's no more excuses now. Other than exceptional stupidity bordering on retardation, I guess.

[JimC]

I think the people who vote for him this time can be considered aspiring fascists. First time they might have bought the lies about jobs and swamps, but they've seen the true Trump for the last 4 years. There's no more excuses now. Other than exceptional stupidity bordering on retardation, I guess.

Some truth in that...

[Svartalf]

(snip) There's no more excuses now. Other than exceptional stupidity bordering on retardation, I guess.

That will be amply enough, I fear.

[Hermit]

Would it be unfair to call all Germans who supported the Nazi party fascists? Many of them didn't check all the boxes, but they were supporters of a fascist movement, no?

Yes, but there are many types of collaborationism. From an article you quoted four months ago here:

Hoffmann made a stab at classification, beginning with a division of collaborators into “voluntary” and “involuntary.” Many people in the latter group had no choice.

He was talking about French collaborators after Hitler's invasion, but this applied to Germans as well. I can tell you that, although they looked like stereotypical Nazi material



neither my father nor his father volunteered their services to the Third Reich. The alternative to not "volunteering" was pretty much certain death.

[Scot Dutchy]

Was that not true of all armies? Even voluntary ones.

[Hermit]

Was that not true of all armies? Even voluntary ones.

No. Even if true, it's irrelevant. Seabass mentioned "all Germans who supported the Nazi party". He claimed that all of them were fascists. I am not sure what he meant with "who supported the Nazi party", but both my parents were in the Hitler Youth. They had no choice. Three of my great-uncles and two of my great-aunts were members of the Nazi party. All five were teachers. They had no choice either. Had they refused membership of the NSDAP (that's the Nazi party), they would have lost their livelihood. No NSDAP membership meant no teaching job. Joining the NSDAP wasn't such a difficult decision to make after the Enabling Act in 1933. War lay six years in the future and systematic genocide of Jews lay another two or three years beyond that.

[Hermit]

What does it really mean to support a regime you have no control or power over?

Eh? I support the regime when I pay taxes. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who want him in power, the people who vote for him, who donate to his campaign, who buy his merch, the people who work for him and his campaign, his cheerleaders on TV, his rally goers, and so on.

What about the people who voted for him for other reasons than the one you like to focus on - who supported him to bring their jobs back, to drain The Swamp, to bring the troops home, to protect the unborn, to punished that nasty... so nasty... Elite woman for Benghazi? Sure, he lied about most of that, and he wanted to build a wall, and ban Muslims, and he's been very reluctant to denounce real fascists and the Saturday morning warriors who parade under the Confederate flag etc, but don't you think non-racist, non-fascistly inclined people might have also supported him for reasons beyond the purely malign and evil? Nonetheless, if were only talking about the people who did support him for fascistic and/or racist reasons then we're obviously talking about a subset - and I guess we have to turn to questions about the composition of that subset and how it relates to the greater group(?), and perhaps along the way we'd touch on that old debate about how moderates often give cover to extremists.

Getting Trump out (Oh please Jesus, please) isn't going to be an inoculation against the factors which brought him to power, but at least it's a start. And yet if people's ideas about making things better only run as far as getting a Democrat into the White House then not much is going to change is it - those factors and tensions will still exist in society; those same structures that have supported and facilitated a man like Trump won't just blow away on the wind. Even if we write-off the fascists and/or racists as a lost cause, there's still a lot of people that lean the Republican way who'll need to be carried along if real, positive change is going to manifest in reality. In order for that change to happen someone, somewhere, at some point, is going to have to start talking seriously about what they actually stand for rather than simply signposting what they stand against.

[Tero]

Toilet flushing and water issues
https://mobile.twitter.com/atrupar/stat ... 1544407040

Er...well...somewhere. Click up and down Rupar.

[Seabass]

Was that not true of all armies? Even voluntary ones.

No. Even if true, it's irrelevant. Seabass mentioned "all Germans who supported the Nazi party". He claimed that all of them were fascists. I am not sure what he meant with "who supported the Nazi party", but both my parents were in the Hitler Youth. They had no choice. Three of my great-uncles and two of my great-aunts were members of the Nazi party. All five were teachers. They had no choice either. Had they refused membership of the NSDAP (that's the Nazi party), they would have lost their livelihood. No NSDAP membership meant no teaching job. Joining the NSDAP wasn't such a difficult decision to make after the Enabling Act in 1933. War lay six years in the future and systematic genocide of Jews lay another two or three years beyond that.

I'm not talking about Germans who had no choice. I thought I'd clarified that here:

Of course I'm not talking about the Germans who were forced into Nazism.

I'm talking about actual supporters of the party and the movement and the ideology. When I make these comparisons I'm talking about early stages of Nazism/fascism, obviously. Forced Nazification came later. Forced Trumpification is not here... yet...

What does it really mean to support a regime you have no control or power over?

Eh? I support the regime when I pay taxes. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who want him in power, the people who vote for him, who donate to his campaign, who buy his merch, the people who work for him and his campaign, his cheerleaders on TV, his rally goers, and so on.

Trump's hordes of red-hatted idiots wear those hats because they want to.

[Hermit]

Was that not true of all armies? Even voluntary ones.

No. Even if true, it's irrelevant. Seabass mentioned "all Germans who supported the Nazi party". He claimed that all of them were fascists. I am not sure what he meant with "who supported the Nazi party", but both my parents were in the Hitler Youth. They had no choice. Three of my great-uncles and two of my great-aunts were members of the Nazi party. All five were teachers. They had no choice either. Had they refused membership of the NSDAP (that's the Nazi party), they would have lost their livelihood. No NSDAP membership meant no teaching job. Joining the NSDAP wasn't such a difficult decision to make after the Enabling Act in 1933. War lay six years in the future and systematic genocide of Jews lay another two or three years beyond that.

I'm not talking about Germans who had no choice. I thought I'd clarified that here:

Of course I'm not talking about the Germans who were forced into Nazism.

I'm talking about actual supporters of the party and the movement and the ideology. When I make these comparisons I'm talking about early stages of Nazism/fascism, obviously. Forced Nazification came later. Forced Trumpification is not here... yet...

What does it really mean to support a regime you have no control or power over?

Eh? I support the regime when I pay taxes. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who want him in power, the people who vote for him, who donate to his campaign, who buy his merch, the people who work for him and his campaign, his cheerleaders on TV, his rally goers, and so on.

My reply was to your earlier post, which I took the trouble to quote. This one:

Would it be unfair to call all Germans who supported the Nazi party fascists? Many of them didn't check all the boxes, but they were supporters of a fascist movement, no?

Trump's hordes of red-hatted idiots wear those hats because they want to.

Yes, they are no less despicable than the psycho they follow and try to emulate, but they constitute nowhere near the majority of people who voted him into office in 2016. You dismissed JimC's allusion to that effect with a rhetorical question I replied to, and you ignored Brian Peacock's post to that effect altogether.

In my opinion Trump is first and foremost an extreme example of a narcissist who exploits and encourages the base aspects of the uneducated and downtrodden masses. If he saw a way of exploiting left wing ideologies, he'd go that way. We are lucky that he is such a lazy fuckwit, spending more time blurting out inchoate tweets and looking forward to his next hamberder than working systematically and unceasingly at becoming an omnipotent dictator the way Hitler and Stalin did. His enablers, particularly Mitch McConnell, are much more dangerous.

[Seabass]

I read Brian's post. I agreed with rEv's reply and had nothing more to add. The people who intend to vote for him this time around are fairly fascistic I would say. They all know what they're voting for this time.

[JimC]

Whatever the label you want to attach to them, Trump voters this time around are certainly more culpable, and more blindly pig-ignorant than the '16 experiment voters...

[Tero]

How do these idiots not know Trump is a pedophile among all his other faults?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/19/tech/qan ... index.html