The Coronavirus Thread

[Hermit]

Yeah but our Dad can beat up your Dad.

No need. Your dad:

[JimC]

Some of the restrictions make sense (I guess) in a situation where the disease is geographically isolated.

It's a matter for each jurisdiction to decide - but even with element of martial law being imposed like we've seen in Victoria we still have to ask who's deciding what and in whose interest.

We're so used to just accepting that politicians don't really represent the interests of us ordinary regular folks, but a virulent and unpredictable virus like COVID-19 is very hard to deal with in public health terms, and probably impossible to hold (let alone make) political ground out of, unless our elected representatives and officials are willing to stop behaving like the craven scum they usually are and put a public health interest first. This crisis has shown our politicians and political systems exactly for what they are - both for good and ill. As always it's a bit of a mixed bag, but still mostly a bag of shit.

I guess if Teh Contagion could be dealt with in geographical isolated it'd still be a Chy-na problem.

There is absolutely no aspect of martial law applied in Victoria. Defence Force personal are purely assisting various state and federal agencies that have been severely stretched for manpower in the crisis. For British armed forces, the correct term would be "aid to the civil power". The declaration of Martial Law is a very formal process that (as far as I know) has not ever occurred in Australia since Federation. The current state of emergency and disaster are purely civil processes.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah but our Dad can beat up your Dad.

No need. Your dad:

[Brian Peacock]

... blah blah blah martial law blah blah blah ...

There is absolutely no aspect of martial law applied in Victoria. Defence Force personal are purely assisting various state and federal agencies that have been severely stretched for manpower in the crisis. For British armed forces, the correct term would be "aid to the civil power". The declaration of Martial Law is a very formal process that (as far as I know) has not ever occurred in Australia since Federation. The current state of emergency and disaster are purely civil processes.

I recognise the distinction, but I think the term can be used in a soft sense to cover the general suspension of individual freedoms and the enforcement of restriction thereof with the aid of the military.

[pErvinalia]

The military has no enforcement role. They are just added bodies. Mostly checking up on quarantined people.

[NineBerry]

Are they armed?

[Hermit]

... blah blah blah martial law blah blah blah ...

There is absolutely no aspect of martial law applied in Victoria. Defence Force personal are purely assisting various state and federal agencies that have been severely stretched for manpower in the crisis. For British armed forces, the correct term would be "aid to the civil power". The declaration of Martial Law is a very formal process that (as far as I know) has not ever occurred in Australia since Federation. The current state of emergency and disaster are purely civil processes.

I recognise the distinction, but I think the term can be used in a soft sense to cover the general suspension of individual freedoms and the enforcement of restriction thereof with the aid of the military.

Unlike the Victorian police, the 3,400 ADF personnel, including medicos, logistical staff and soldiers are doing their job totally unarmed.





Also, the federal government has not imposed them on the state. The Victorian Premier has asked for assistance because his own resources can't cope with the work on their own.

[Brian Peacock]

Well I did say 'an element of martial law' and qualified what I meant by it. Consider it an expressive term rather than an absolute categorical statement bound to a literal definition of the term. You know what I mean.

[NineBerry]

Unlike the Victorian police, the 3,400 ADF personnel, including medicos, logistical staff and soldiers are doing their job totally unarmed.

Wrong. They are armed. And amongst their weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Queen, and nice camouflage uniforms.

(Not to mention comfy chairs and soft cushions)

[Hermit]

Well I did say 'an element of martial law' and qualified what I meant by it. Consider it an expressive term rather than an absolute categorical statement bound to a literal definition of the term. You know what I mean.

I put it to you that there is more of an element of martial law when facing a man in uniform that includes an armoured vest and a Glock than one decked out with a camo outfit and a floppy hat.

Premier Andrews is now being criticised for not asking for ADF personnel early enough. Apparently he should have been able to foresee that the extra manpower he employed from commercial security companies were more interested in having sex with their charges than ensuring their social isolation.

Melbourne’s quarantine hotels have been identified as a major source of the virus escalation. Since the Australia travel ban came into force in March, all travelers returning from overseas must self-isolate for 14 days in their hotel rooms.

“Somehow this virus escaped ... It looks like it all came from one hotel, and a few security guards having a good time,” said the ABC’s chief political correspondent, Laura Tingle. “It’s obviously now escaped hugely,” Tingle told Late Night Live host Phillip Adams.

The finger is being pointed at private security contractors involved in Victoria’s hotel quarantine system. The state leader has launched a $3 million judicial inquiry into the “bungled quarantine program”, as The Age puts it. Particularly into the role of security guards in “infection control breach”. Three firms were initially assigned to the job. “Some of the quarantine contracts were sub-contracted to smaller operators, a practice that drives down wages and muddles responsibility.” All those guards are under gag orders (though one has broken that to speak out).

The virus containment method, which “was the envy of the world just a few weeks ago,” was within 24 hours “brutally exposed” notes News.com.au.
Man gestures from window of covid-19 quarantine hotel in Australia

31 cases stem from the biggest hotel outbreak at a 5-star luxury hotel in Melbourne The Australian reports. That number continues to grow. Positive Covid tests taken during quarantine include security guards and “a household contact of a confirmed case.”

Security staff and “quarantine-hotel insiders” claim hotel guards slept with guests during quarantine the newspaper says. And that “security personnel wore personal protective equipment for up to eight hours without changing it.”

“Guards shook hands and shared lifts, some had just six hours of ­infection control training, some were caught sleeping on the job and quarantined families were allowed to go between rooms to play cards and games.” The revelations were first made to Melbourne newspaper the Herald Sun.

Now The Age claims that the security company at the hotbed virus hotel also provided guards for a Melbourne public housing estate–another Covid hotbed under hard lockdown since Saturday.

Continued

[Hermit]

Unlike the Victorian police, the 3,400 ADF personnel, including medicos, logistical staff and soldiers are doing their job totally unarmed.

Wrong. They are armed. And amongst their weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Queen, and nice camouflage uniforms.

(Not to mention comfy chairs and soft cushions)

Nobody expected that!

[Scot Dutchy]

Curfew is a martial law provision. So is restricting movement.

[Scot Dutchy]

Cases are back up again today (372 new cases and 14 deaths). Numbers are expected to bounce up and down for a while, but the 5 day moving average is trending down. Little by little, we'll get there...

Ask the British ONS to look at them. I am quite sure they could shave a few thousand off those figures.

[Hermit]

Curfew is a martial law provision. So is restricting movement.

It can be, but most people's first encounter with curfew is nothing of the sort. In my sub-teens I was under orders to be back home by sundown. I bet millions of children had the same experience.

[Scot Dutchy]

Curfew is a martial law provision. So is restricting movement.

It can be, but most people's first encounter with curfew is nothing of the sort. In my sub-teens I was under orders to be back home by sundown. I bet millions of children had the same experience.

That was parental curfew. One imposed by government through one or more of its agencies is martial law.