The Trump Pandemic

[Seabass]

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

Animal behaviour are evolved responses to environmental conditions. Mammalian emotions are a mechanism which prepares an organism for action (behaviour).

Advertisers are those who specialise in tapping into our emotional responses in order to elicit some particular kind of behaviour - buy our stuff!

Public Relations firms specialise in tapping into our emotional responses in order to foster some particular kinds of ideas - chiefly favourable ideas about or towards their clients and the activities they undertake.

Politicians employ the rhetorical and narrative techniques of advertising and public relations to foster favourable ideas about themselves and unfavourable ideas about their rivals, with the goal of eliciting some particular kind of behaviour - to vote for X over Y, to not vote for Y, to not vote at all, to support this-or-that policy, to repeat this-or-that argument or talking point, to adopt this or that attitude.

Psychologists and sociologists have demonstrated that particular combinations of psychological and cognitive traits make people more susceptible to particular kinds of ideas and behaviour in response to particular kinds of rhetoric and narratives. People's psychological and cognitive traits, and the expression of those traits, are influenced by their environment (their present circumstances, their past experiences, their upbringing, the ideas they've been exposed to, etc) as much as being natural endowments and deficits with which they are born.

Reducing this complex web of environment, interaction, feedback, predisposition, circumstance, experience, exposure, and stimuli down to simple adjectives like 'evil' and 'stupid', or 'benign' and 'clever', is to ignore the fundamental complexities of what it means to be a human being in human society - it is, in effect, a way to dehumanise and de-legitimise the experience and basic humanity of other humans.

If the goal of any self-declared leftist is to improve the material conditions of all ordinary, working people within the systems which we have created and call 'our society', then we must find a way to put aside reactive platitudes and over-simplistic moral judgements about those who are essentiality in the same situation as our ourselves. We must avoid erecting false dichotomies and false distinctions that seemingly legitimise our own vilification, denigration, censure and even hatred of people essentially no different to ourselves - people just reacting to their environment in the only way they know how to do. Instead we must devote what energies and abilities we have to developing a broad and encompassing critique of the societies in which we operate and the systems we have created to organise them along with some viable set of alternatives to those systems. If we don't do this then what really changes? What is really improved?

And if that system is fundamentally broken then we must take matters into our own hands, working directly within the community to improve the material conditions of all its members for it's own sake, and through that develop new systems and ways of doing things like the labour movements of the early 20th century, the civil rights movements of mid 20th century, and the women's and LGB movements of the late 20th century did before us.

Picking a side at election time is simply not enough, particularly if we think that exercising our vote is the sum total or end of our political responsibilities to society. And if the system is fundamentally broken -- and at this point I think it probably is - then even that will not bring about real, positive, and lasting change in real, ordinary, working people's lives.

This is why not just accepting or agreeing with modern movements for change like environmental campaigners, trans rights activists and BLM etc, but actually supporting them through participation and activism, is so important - because in helping to highlight those kinds of issues, and through that helping to develop new ways to talk about those issues along with new ways of addressing them, we ultimately elevate the entire community to a better place that it would have been otherwise. It's also important because it's clear the old ways of thinking, talking about, and doing things is exactly what's led us to the situation we now find ourselves in.

I can't say it more plainly that that Seabass - well, I probably could, but it's late and it's better that it's said now than put off for another day that might not come.

And by the way, Brian, the whole "economic anxiety" defense of Trump supporters is a canard. Numerous studies like this one have shown it to be BS. We've all had economic anxiety. I have economic anxiety as we speak, thanks to the Trump plague, but I've still never voted for a far-right racist demagogue. You know who has more economic anxiety than Trumpists? Black people. Brown people. Immigrants. Refugees. Gay people. Trans people. The very people that Trump has been terrorizing over the last four years. The Republicans had 18 other candidates to choose from, but they chose Trump and in doing so showed us that all that talk about "fiscal responsibility", and "reigning in spending", and "reducing the deficit" was all a load of crap. Trumpism has always been about white resentment, racial animus, Christian tribalism, hatred of gays, and fear of demographic changes. It's about keeping Whiteness and Christianity at the top of the social order. It's about keeping brown people out and black people down.

If you're going to white knight Trumpists, then you may as well white knight Nazis, because the only real difference is how far they were able to get before the rest of the world finally had to wake the hell up and come together to stop them.

[Brian Peacock]

I'd be grateful if you could explain why you think I'm white knighting Trumpists. If fact I'd really appreciate your take on what I've tried to articulate recently because we both seem to be missing each other's point atm.

[Seabass]

I'd be grateful if you could explain why you think I'm white knighting Trumpists.

Because on a few occasions, in response to me venting my frustrations at Trumpists, you've accused me of vilifying, denigrating, and dehumanizing them.

If fact I'd really appreciate your take on what I've tried to articulate recently because we both seem to be missing each other's point atm.

That poor white people and poor non-white people are both victims of the ruling class, and that we should all try to find common ground and recognize our shared humanity and work together instead of against each other. Have I missed your point? I don't think I have. I just think it's a fairy tale. Over the past four years, Trumpists have repeatedly shown themselves to be bigoted, malevolent, sadistic, cruel, dangerous and destructive in ways that are very reminiscent of European fascism, albeit far dumber...

[Brian Peacock]

I'd be grateful if you could explain why you think I'm white knighting Trumpists.

Because on a few occasions, in response to me venting my frustrations at Trumpists, you've accused me of vilifying, denigrating, and dehumanizing them.

How is your venting different from vilification etc, and why does me challenging you constitute an accusation?

If fact I'd really appreciate your take on what I've tried to articulate recently because we both seem to be missing each other's point atm.

That poor white people and poor non-white people are both victims of the ruling class, and that we should all try to find common ground and recognize our shared humanity and work together instead of against each other. Have I missed your point? I don't think I have. I just think it's a fairy tale. Over the past four years, Trumpists have repeatedly shown themselves to be bigoted, malevolent, sadistic, cruel, dangerous and destructive in ways that are very reminiscent of European fascism, albeit far dumber...

that's certainly part of what I've been saying, but is all you've taken from what I said? Tell me why that part of it is a fairytale?

[JimC]

Seabass, I think you are lumping the hard core of Trump's supporters with the much broader pool of those who voted for him in '16, at least some of whom are probably having second thoughts. The actual words and policies of the Trump administration and the Republicans need a strong critique, sure, but a virulent, no holds barred divide, with the "if you're not against Trump, you're an enemy" and its reciprocal, is not healthy for your country...

[Seabass]

I'd be grateful if you could explain why you think I'm white knighting Trumpists.

Because on a few occasions, in response to me venting my frustrations at Trumpists, you've accused me of vilifying, denigrating, and dehumanizing them.

How is your venting different from vilification etc, and why does me challenging you constitute an accusation?

It's not vilification if it's true. If I call a klansmen a racist, am I vilifying him?

If fact I'd really appreciate your take on what I've tried to articulate recently because we both seem to be missing each other's point atm.

That poor white people and poor non-white people are both victims of the ruling class, and that we should all try to find common ground and recognize our shared humanity and work together instead of against each other. Have I missed your point? I don't think I have. I just think it's a fairy tale. Over the past four years, Trumpists have repeatedly shown themselves to be bigoted, malevolent, sadistic, cruel, dangerous and destructive in ways that are very reminiscent of European fascism, albeit far dumber...

that's certainly part of what I've been saying, but is all you've taken from what I said? Tell me why that part of it is a fairytale?

And by the way, Brian, the whole "economic anxiety" defense of Trump supporters is a canard. Numerous studies like this one have shown it to be BS. We've all had economic anxiety. I have economic anxiety as we speak, thanks to the Trump plague, but I've still never voted for a far-right racist demagogue. You know who has more economic anxiety than Trumpists? Black people. Brown people. Immigrants. Refugees. Gay people. Trans people. The very people that Trump has been terrorizing over the last four years. The Republicans had 18 other candidates to choose from, but they chose Trump and in doing so showed us that all that talk about "fiscal responsibility", and "reigning in spending", and "reducing the deficit" was all a load of crap. Trumpism has always been about white resentment, racial animus, Christian tribalism, hatred of gays, and fear of demographic changes. It's about keeping Whiteness and Christianity at the top of the social order. It's about keeping brown people out and black people down.

[Seabass]

Seabass, I think you are lumping the hard core of Trump's supporters with the much broader pool of those who voted for him in '16, at least some of whom are probably having second thoughts.

No, I say "Trump supporters" now instead of "Trump voters" for a reason. I know that some who voted for him have regrets and will not be voting for him in 2020. Unfortunately, 80-90% of Republicans still support him.

[Brian Peacock]

I'd be grateful if you could explain why you think I'm white knighting Trumpists.

Because on a few occasions, in response to me venting my frustrations at Trumpists, you've accused me of vilifying, denigrating, and dehumanizing them.

How is your venting different from vilification etc, and why does me challenging you constitute an accusation?

It's not vilification if it's true. If I call a klansmen a racist, am I vilifying him?

Didn't we do this with Stephen Miller not so long ago? Didn't I say I have no problem with you calling anyone a racist as long as you can justify it, but you've been calling all Trumpists evil, racist, stupid etc because Trump is a stupid, evil racist. He's also a rampant sexist, and he burst in to the changing room of teenage girls at his junior Miss World beauty pageants to cop a feel. Are all Trumpists paedos too? I think you're taking the deplorable personal characteristics of a powerful and charismatic figure and applying them to an entire demographic who've swallowed his lies, and then presented this over-simplification as if it's a self-evident truth.

I believe that when you read something like that you think I'm telling you we need to pander to or accommodate racism, hate-speech, and other forms of bigotry. I'm not. I saying that if we, as leftists progressives, are serious about creating a more compassionate, tolerant, equal, inclusive and just society we have to move beyond expressing vituperative opprobrium at the voting choices of others and develop a critique of the system as a whole along with some viable sets of political propositions - and then we have to find ways to articulate these ideas in a consistent and compelling way. In other words we have avoid simply cancelling some section of the community we don't agree with and try and give them some real, concrete reasons for aspiring to the kind of society we both know is possible.

In my view, given the parlous state of our electoral systems and impoverished capacity of our democratic processes, the only way to begin the work of fostering a mass movement for positive change is to take our principles directly to the community and put them into practice. That' not a fairytale - that's called participatory activism.

If fact I'd really appreciate your take on what I've tried to articulate recently because we both seem to be missing each other's point atm.

That poor white people and poor non-white people are both victims of the ruling class, and that we should all try to find common ground and recognize our shared humanity and work together instead of against each other. Have I missed your point? I don't think I have. I just think it's a fairy tale. Over the past four years, Trumpists have repeatedly shown themselves to be bigoted, malevolent, sadistic, cruel, dangerous and destructive in ways that are very reminiscent of European fascism, albeit far dumber...

that's certainly part of what I've been saying, but is all you've taken from what I said? Tell me why that part of it is a fairytale?

And by the way, Brian, the whole "economic anxiety" defense of Trump supporters is a canard. Numerous studies like this one have shown it to be BS. We've all had economic anxiety. I have economic anxiety as we speak, thanks to the Trump plague, but I've still never voted for a far-right racist demagogue. You know who has more economic anxiety than Trumpists? Black people. Brown people. Immigrants. Refugees. Gay people. Trans people. The very people that Trump has been terrorizing over the last four years. The Republicans had 18 other candidates to choose from, but they chose Trump and in doing so showed us that all that talk about "fiscal responsibility", and "reigning in spending", and "reducing the deficit" was all a load of crap. Trumpism has always been about white resentment, racial animus, Christian tribalism, hatred of gays, and fear of demographic changes. It's about keeping Whiteness and Christianity at the top of the social order. It's about keeping brown people out and black people down.

So what are you going to do about it?

[Seabass]

I'd be grateful if you could explain why you think I'm white knighting Trumpists.

Because on a few occasions, in response to me venting my frustrations at Trumpists, you've accused me of vilifying, denigrating, and dehumanizing them.

How is your venting different from vilification etc, and why does me challenging you constitute an accusation?

It's not vilification if it's true. If I call a klansmen a racist, am I vilifying him?

Didn't we do this with Stephen Miller not so long ago? Didn't I say I have no problem with you calling anyone a racist as long as you can justify it, but you've been calling all Trumpists evil, racist, stupid etc because Trump is a stupid, evil racist. He's also a rampant sexist, and he burst in to the changing room of teenage girls at his junior Miss World beauty pageants to cop a feel. Are all Trumpists paedos too? I think you're taking the deplorable personal characteristics of a powerful and charismatic figure and applying them to an entire demographic who've swallowed his lies, and then presented this over-simplification as if it's a self-evident truth.

There is currently a white supremacist running our immigration policy. All Americans who continue to support Trump in spite of this fit into one of three categories:
a) Those who are in favor of having a white supremacist running our immigration policy.
b) Those who are ok with having a white supremacist running our immigration policy.
c) Those who have no idea there is a white supremacist running our immigration policy.

The first two groups can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned. The third group would be the equivalent of Germans who support Hitler because they like his mustache and are oblivious to Hitler's genocidal racism. I guess you can say that members of this group are less morally repugnant than the other two, but in practical terms, they end up having the same effect on their nation's immigration policies, so I don't really mind lumping them in with the other two groups. Fuck 'em. ALL of them.

I believe that when you read something like that you think I'm telling you we need to pander to or accommodate racism, hate-speech, and other forms of bigotry. I'm not. I saying that if we, as leftists progressives, are serious about creating a more compassionate, tolerant, equal, inclusive and just society we have to move beyond expressing vituperative opprobrium at the voting choices of others and develop a critique of the system as a whole along with some viable sets of political propositions - and then we have to find ways to articulate these ideas in a consistent and compelling way. In other words we have avoid simply cancelling some section of the community we don't agree with and try and give them some real, concrete reasons for aspiring to the kind of society we both know is possible.

Well, if I happen to come across some nice Tucker Carlson fans, I'll try to be friendly, ok?

In my view, given the parlous state of our electoral systems and impoverished capacity of our democratic processes, the only way to begin the work of fostering a mass movement for positive change is to take our principles directly to the community and put them into practice. That' not a fairytale - that's called participatory activism.

If fact I'd really appreciate your take on what I've tried to articulate recently because we both seem to be missing each other's point atm.

That poor white people and poor non-white people are both victims of the ruling class, and that we should all try to find common ground and recognize our shared humanity and work together instead of against each other. Have I missed your point? I don't think I have. I just think it's a fairy tale. Over the past four years, Trumpists have repeatedly shown themselves to be bigoted, malevolent, sadistic, cruel, dangerous and destructive in ways that are very reminiscent of European fascism, albeit far dumber...

that's certainly part of what I've been saying, but is all you've taken from what I said? Tell me why that part of it is a fairytale?

And by the way, Brian, the whole "economic anxiety" defense of Trump supporters is a canard. Numerous studies like this one have shown it to be BS. We've all had economic anxiety. I have economic anxiety as we speak, thanks to the Trump plague, but I've still never voted for a far-right racist demagogue. You know who has more economic anxiety than Trumpists? Black people. Brown people. Immigrants. Refugees. Gay people. Trans people. The very people that Trump has been terrorizing over the last four years. The Republicans had 18 other candidates to choose from, but they chose Trump and in doing so showed us that all that talk about "fiscal responsibility", and "reigning in spending", and "reducing the deficit" was all a load of crap. Trumpism has always been about white resentment, racial animus, Christian tribalism, hatred of gays, and fear of demographic changes. It's about keeping Whiteness and Christianity at the top of the social order. It's about keeping brown people out and black people down.

So what are you going to do about it?

You seem to think that I cease to exist when I'm not griping about Trump on the internet. I only spend on average, what, maybe 5-10 minutes a day griping about Trump? I can spew the vituperative opprobrium AND do other stuff in addition to that. I don't have to limit myself to only one or the other.

[Seabass]

In other words we have avoid simply cancelling some section of the community we don't agree with and try and give them some real, concrete reasons for aspiring to the kind of society we both know is possible.

And what is this about canceling? They want to cancel non-whites, non-Christians, gays, trans people, immigrants, refugees, women's bodily autonomy, etc, so spare me lectures about canceling. I'm not the one doing the canceling.

[Seabass]

.

[Brian Peacock]

Well, if I happen to come across some nice Tucker Carlson fans, I'll try to be friendly, ok?

Hmm. Not really sure where that came from mate - particularly given...

I believe that when you read something like that you think I'm telling you we need to pander to or accommodate racism, hate-speech, and other forms of bigotry. I'm not. I saying that if we, as leftists progressives ... <see above> ...

I don't think you're paying attention Seabass.

* * *

...
You seem to think that I cease to exist when I'm not griping about Trump on the internet. I only spend on average, what, maybe 5-10 minutes a day griping about Trump? I can spew the vituperative opprobrium AND do other stuff in addition to that. I don't have to limit myself to only one or the other.

I didn't suggest that you did or that you should. So what are you doing about the things that are "keeping Whiteness and Christianity at the top of the social order [and] keeping brown people out and black people down"?

[Seabass]

Well, if I happen to come across some nice Tucker Carlson fans, I'll try to be friendly, ok?

Hmm. Not really sure where that came from mate - particularly given...

I believe that when you read something like that you think I'm telling you we need to pander to or accommodate racism, hate-speech, and other forms of bigotry. I'm not. I saying that if we, as leftists progressives ... <see above> ...

I don't think you're paying attention Seabass.

Really? 'Cause I kind of feel like you're the one not paying attention, Monsieur Peacock.

* * *

...
You seem to think that I cease to exist when I'm not griping about Trump on the internet. I only spend on average, what, maybe 5-10 minutes a day griping about Trump? I can spew the vituperative opprobrium AND do other stuff in addition to that. I don't have to limit myself to only one or the other.

I didn't suggest that you did or that you should. So what are you doing about the things that are "keeping Whiteness and Christianity at the top of the social order [and] keeping brown people out and black people down"?

Well, I've attended various protests over the years, including recent BLM protests here in San Diego. I've given money to various civil rights organizations over the years, including, but not limited to, ACLU, NAACP, and RAICES. During the 2018 primaries, we donated to the campaigns of Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Jay Inslee. We try to support good news organizations either through subscriptions or donations.

Is that enough Brian? Have I passed the test? Am I now allowed to say mean stuff on the internet about the people want to deport me and half my family and terrorize and torture brown people, women, and gays? Do you ever make such demands of conservatives, or only of people who say mean things about conservatives?

[pErvinalia]

Don't mind Brian. He's a theoretical Marxist. If he was a real one he'd be out there punching on with the cops and right wingers..

[JimC]

Between now and November, surely the most important choices for anti-Trump forces are to decide what words and actions will have the greatest chance of reducing the vote for Trump, and increasing the vote for Biden. All other more theoretical stuff is surely moot until then...