All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

[Brian Peacock]

Why does your answer depend upon what you think I think? What do you think?

[Cunt]

You asked what the difference between the parties is.

You are my best example, since you are right here where you can answer yourself.

YOU know how many of each party you can think well of.

It's YOU asking, so ask yourself. Tell us if you like.

[Brian Peacock]

Ok. So your answer to a quite straightforward question does depend on what you think I think - but wasn't it pretty obvious what I think? I don't think there's a functional difference between the parties - whoever gets in the policies remain fundamentally unchanged. However, you clearly think there's a substantial difference between them, which we see every day in your reflexive condemnation of the Dems and your constant criticism of the media outlets you think are giving them an easy ride. That's why I was asking you to outline what you think the differences between them actually are?

[Cunt]

Ok. So your answer to a quite straightforward question does depend on what you think I think - but wasn't it pretty obvious what I think? I don't think there's a functional difference between the parties - whoever gets in the policies remain fundamentally unchanged. However, you clearly think there's a substantial difference between them, which we see every day in your reflexive condemnation of the Dems and your constant criticism of the media outlets you think are giving them an easy ride. That's why I was asking you to outline what you think the differences between them actually are?

One big difference, is your inability to view them fairly.

Give the same care and consideration to republicans, that you would offer 'the squad', who you view as some kind of victims...

Go ahead, I'll wait.

Unless of course you can't.

Getting back to the subject of the thread, it isn't over, as far as I can tell, he's getting in again. No problem though, since there isn't any difference to you between the parties.

[Brian Peacock]

What's unfair about my point of view, and who is it unfair to?

[Cunt]

What's unfair about my point of view, and who is it unfair to?

Nothing.

I just know I can never expect you to acknowledge positive things about Trump or his party. Not unfair to anyone, since your opinion is about as important as mine on the matter (neither of us get to vote)

[Seabass]

Do you think there's really any significant difference between either of the two big US parties? I mean, nothing really changes whoever gets in does it? Why are we supposed to side with one and think the other is evil incarnate? It's like calling Pepsi evil because you think Coke is the top banana, or hating on Reebok over Nike - there's nothing to choose between them.

Um, there's an actual, bona fide white supremacist running our immigration policy right now. Not a single, solitary Republican has objected. This administration has gone after TPS recipients (refugees from Haiti, Liberia, Korea, Vietnam, etc) who've lived here for years or decades. This administration tried to deport sick children receiving life-saving treatment. Don't even get me started on the child-separation policy. The Dems want to deal with global warming, the Republicans want to deregulate and unleash the fossil fuel industry. The Dems are trying to get everyone healthcare while the the Republicans are trying to boot seniors off Medicare. The Republicans still hate gay and trans people. They still think supply side works. They block all the Dem's efforts on gun control. They see black people being mowed down in the streets by cops, but what they get upset over is kneeling black athletes. They want to ban abortion, FFS. It's almost 2020. There are literally man-made robots rolling around on Mars, and the Republicans want to ban abortion.

[Cunt]

Thoughtful, unbiased and based in reason. You must be the smartest person you know!

By the way, can you say who should be deported? I understand, from that post, some of those who you think should not be, but I want to get a fuller idea of what your position is.

[Seabass]

Do you think there's really any significant difference between either of the two big US parties? I mean, nothing really changes whoever gets in does it? Why are we supposed to side with one and think the other is evil incarnate? It's like calling Pepsi evil because you think Coke is the top banana, or hating on Reebok over Nike - there's nothing to choose between them.

The current House has passed HUNDREDS of bills this session. They were up to like 460 two or three months ago, so I'm sure they've passed many more since then. And that vile deep sea creature Mitch McConnell just lets them collect dust on his desk. He is not required to even do so much as bring them to the Senate floor for a vote. It's fucked up.

Our system of government is really fucked up, Brian. It heavily favors the status quo. Between the electoral college, the apportionment of senators, the veto, the supermajority or 2/3rds vote requirement on a lot of stuff, the fact that the Senate majority leader can ignore bills, etc. Basically, for real change to happen, there has to be MASSIVE social upheaval to force the conservatives to let legislation through.

Our system of government really fucking sucks. It's a disaster. If you really think both sides are the same, you don't understand US politics or government.

[Tero]

Old timers dumping Trump
https://theweek.com/speedreads/915027/t ... polls-show

[Brian Peacock]

...

Our system of government really fucking sucks. It's a disaster. If you really think both sides are the same, you don't understand US politics or government.

Fair enough, though I feel you could've be a little more charitable. If, for example, you think the system of government is failing then perhaps you've identified a fundamental problem - perhaps the fundamental problem - and have merely reiterated my point in different terms? Both main parties operate within that sucky system and neither seem keen to posit an alternative - thus the direction of travel policy-wise has been the same for the last 40 years regardless of who was 'in', and when somebody comes along with an approach which threatens to break with that - like, say, Bernie - both sides conspire to sideline those ideas and stymie the debate. I mean, clearly the Dems would rather lose with Biden than risk winning with Bernie, and the Repugs obviously don't give a shit about who's nominally 'in charge' as long as they always get to control the political agenda - which they do.

The US is a managed or guided democracy whatever way you look at it. The UK and the EU are basically variations on the same theme. In that context both your and Cunt's vilification of the other lot looks very similar to faux brand wars over Nike and Reebok etc - it doesn't matter which one you think is best as long as you keep buying into the system.

[JimC]

...

Our system of government really fucking sucks. It's a disaster. If you really think both sides are the same, you don't understand US politics or government.

Fair enough, though I feel you could've be a little more charitable. If, for example, you think the system of government is failing then perhaps you've identified a fundamental problem - perhaps the fundamental problem - and have merely reiterated my point in different terms? Both main parties operate within that sucky system and neither seem keen to posit an alternative - thus the direction of travel policy-wise has been in the same for the last 40 years regardless of who was in, and when somebody comes along with an approach which threatens to break with that - like, say, Bernie - both sides conspire to sideline those idea and stymie the debate. I mean, clearly the Dems would rather lose with Biden than risk winning with Bernie, and the Repugs obviously don't give a shit about who's nominally 'in charge' as long as they always get to control the political agenda - which they do.

The US is a managed or guided democracy whatever way you look at it. The UK and the EU are basically variations on the same theme. In that context both your and Cunt's vilification of the other lot looks very similar to faux brand wars over Nike and Reebok etc - it doesn't matter which one you think is best as long as you keep buying into the system.

I'm sure you have a point about the political system being a major stumbling block to real reform, with Seabass in agreement. However, I think you gloss over real differences between political parties that are absolutely entrenched in maintaining the power of the big end of town, and tacitly supporting racism, compared to those with at least some progressive policies which could at least make a difference in both environmental issues and the lives of ordinary people.

[Brian Peacock]

I'm happy to acknowledge those differences Jim, but in a managed democracy such differences that there are only amount to branding distinctions within narrowly defined boundaries that offer a choice between continuity or more of the same.

[Seabass]

...

Our system of government really fucking sucks. It's a disaster. If you really think both sides are the same, you don't understand US politics or government.

Fair enough, though I feel you could've be a little more charitable. If, for example, you think the system of government is failing then perhaps you've identified a fundamental problem - perhaps the fundamental problem - and have merely reiterated my point in different terms? Both main parties operate within that sucky system and neither seem keen to posit an alternative - thus the direction of travel policy-wise has been in the same for the last 40 years regardless of who was in, and when somebody comes along with an approach which threatens to break with that - like, say, Bernie - both sides conspire to sideline those idea and stymie the debate. I mean, clearly the Dems would rather lose with Biden than risk winning with Bernie, and the Repugs obviously don't give a shit about who's nominally 'in charge' as long as they always get to control the political agenda - which they do.

The US is a managed or guided democracy whatever way you look at it. The UK and the EU are basically variations on the same theme. In that context both your and Cunt's vilification of the other lot looks very similar to faux brand wars over Nike and Reebok etc - it doesn't matter which one you think is best as long as you keep buying into the system.

One party wants progress. The other party wants the status quo (and on many issues to go backwards). Our system of government heavily favors the side that wants to maintain the status quo... therefore both sides are equally to blame? It doesn't make sense. I don't even know how to respond to that.

If the Democrats have passed hundreds of pieces of legislation, and Mitch McConnell can just sit his fat ass on it and laugh maniacally, how on earth are the Democrats equally to blame?

Read these, and then explain to me how both sides are equally to blame.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/p ... ghts-bill/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-d ... d=61557402

more info here:

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politi ... 84359.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/house-appr ... ights-act/

[JimC]

I'm happy to acknowledge those differences Jim, but in a managed democracy such differences that there are only amount to branding distinctions within narrowly defined boundaries that offer a choice between continuity or more of the same.

Well that's where we'll have to differ. I mean, I'm not going to pretend that the Dems in the US, the ALP or the Greens here or your own Labour Party will lead us into paradise, and there are certainly some structural issues in how societies operate that will not alter with a change in parties. However, real and useful change can and will occur if voters so desire. In the US, the extraordinary wind-back of environmental protections and health and safety rules by the Trump administration would certainly be addressed by the Democrats. More progressive governments can at least improve the lot of working people to some degree, and at least move somewhat towards a future with more renewables.