The Coronavirus Thread

[Cunt]

He compared your argument to Phelp's argument. That's not a personal attack.

I think Phelps's moustache and yours are eerily similar.

[Brian Peacock]

Brian you are talking pure shit. You insult me and you allow others to do the same. You were using Phelps because I dont accept the crap presented by many governments. YOU STEPPED OVER THE LINE. I am not insulting any one and if I am please tell me how. I am questioning the data and nothing else. What you want to interpret then that is YOI.
There is no international protocol to define what is a Corona virus death. Being infected by the virus and dying is not a Coronas death. I have fibrosis of the lungs and that is the primary complaint. If I got the virus (which I think I did) it would not be the cause of death. IT IS THE SECONDARY INFECTION.
Just why are you so insulting? Why cant you stand someone just questioning your rigid beliefs. You are like an evangelical. Your ideas are the only ones and because a few certain mistaken fools back you makes it all alright.
I am not the only one. Many level headed highly qualified people also challenge the shit put out by governments.
That comparison with Phelps was one step too far and if you are not willing to apologise and take proper action then sorry you have failed.

Your fibrosis is a co-mobidity - an underlying or pre-existing condition which increases your risk. If you got Covid-19 and died -- please don't -- that would be the cause of death, not the fibrosis. It would be right, and sensible to count it in the figures. Your distinction here between primary and secondary just appears to be an arbitrary way of saying that Covid-19 isn't killing people when it clearly is. You've been a Covid-Truther from the begining but you can't pretend Covid-19 isn't a thing any more, and the comparison to Phelps is to highlight how you're gaslighting the bereaved and trying to teach medical and public health practitioners how to suck eggs.

[Scot Dutchy]

See that is where plenty of medical world would disagree. The terminology is not mine. People dying from only Corona are the minority and those that have are also the ones never been investigated. Just because they test positive does not mean they died from it. Thousands have recovered. It is not a 100% fatal and the ones that have died we dont know the full truth only a claim made by certain sections of government. Where is the independent evidence?

Once again you go off in your tangent of labelling people just like the extreme religious do. You cant stand people existing with a totally open mind. I do not say the virus(god) does not exist. As with my atheism I say there is no proof that the corona virus as portrayed by certain government bodies does exist. It one of a large family of viruses. People have died who have tested positive. Until post mortems are carried out as part a survey of people that have died who were tested positive that is all you can say.

Your comparison of me to Phelps is a cheap underhand insult and a ploy you often use when losing an argument. How are families insulted? I am just questioning the data and assumptions made using it. Where is the reference to the families? Did I say the patients that died are sub-human?

I am not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs. There are enough medical practitioners and statisticians who question the data. I dont have a closed mind. The pandemic is also very political and was very convenient but that is one aspect amongst many you refuse to look at. Another aspect is the search for a vaccine. Who makes it gets the prize of a fortune which is why Trump is so keen on the idea. Many top researchers here say it will be at least four years before a vaccine is safe to use.

[Brian Peacock]

See that is where plenty of medical world would disagree. The terminology is not mine. People dying from only Corona are the minority and those that have are also the ones never been investigated. Just because they test positive does not mean they died from it. Thousands have recovered. It is not a 100% fatal and the ones that have died we dont know the full truth only a claim made by certain sections of government. Where is the independent evidence?

I didn't say it was 100% fatal, nor have I claimed that people are dying always and only ever from the virus, nor that people have never recovered. I will note however that people young and old without underlying health conditions continue to die from Covid-19 and also repeat that the seasonal mortality rates and excess death rates are significantly higher than would be expected for the time of year. What I have said, at least three times now I think, is that co-morbidities have an impact on risk and lethality for those who contract the infection - which is not a controversial or outlandish statement as the combination of medical conditions that increase one's risk of death are called co-morbidities for that reason. So I will not be trying to prove a negative to your satisfaction for claims I haven't made.

Once again you go off in your tangent of labelling people just like the extreme religious do. You cant stand people existing with a totally open mind. I do not say the virus(god) does not exist. As with my atheism I say there is no proof that the corona virus as portrayed by certain government bodies does exist. It one of a large family of viruses. People have died who have tested positive. Until post mortems are carried out as part a survey of people that have died who were tested positive that is all you can say.

Waffle. Mortality rates have skyrocketed, and in the Netherlands, the UK, Spain, and Italy significantly more people have died for the time of year than can be accounted for by the confirmed cases alone.

Your comparison of me to Phelps is a cheap underhand insult and a ploy you often use when losing an argument. How are families insulted? I am just questioning the data and assumptions made using it. Where is the reference to the families? Did I say the patients that died are sub-human?

Get over it. I expressed in terms I thought you'd understand how your opinion was coming across to me - it was a commoner on your opinion on this matter.

I am not trying to teach anyone to suck eggs. There are enough medical practitioners and statisticians who question the data. I dont have a closed mind. The pandemic is also very political and was very convenient but that is one aspect amongst many you refuse to look at. Another aspect is the search for a vaccine. Who makes it gets the prize of a fortune which is why Trump is so keen on the idea. Many top researchers here say it will be at least four years before a vaccine is safe to use.

That's true. On past evidence the fastest start-to-finish vaccine was the Measles vaccine in the late 60s at four years. The development of an active agent may be more efficient these days, at take advantage of subsequent advances in medical science, but the trail, testing, analysis, and evaluation stages are things that cannot, and should not, be hurried.

As for the political dimension, in the US and the UK at least the big policy push from the neo-liberals is to normalise living with an endemic virus and bring the populous to a point where they'll just accept it as a fact of life like they've been primed to accept CO2 emissions and global warming etc - and I don't think the EU are very far behind in that respect. This is just what comes of living in a managed democracy I guess.

If a viable vaccine is developed we in the West will also demand to be first in the queue for it, even though our economies are now almost entirely dependent on commodities and cheap labour from poorer, more oppressive parts of the world. However, neo-liberals will never accept that their, and our, health and well-being are intimately bound to the health and well-being of brown people far away, which is why I think their political push to get back to how wonderful things were just a short time ago will ultimately work against their interests.

[Scot Dutchy]

Waffle. Mortality rates have skyrocketed, and in the Netherlands, the UK, Spain, and Italy significantly more people have died for the time of year than can be accounted for by the confirmed cases alone.

There has been a increase but "skyrocketed"? No not quite. We dont know the total picture and we will never know as there was no null line. All governments followed the trend from a partial to full lockdown. No country carried on regardless.
Even now the picture is not of one where there 200 million are dying as was predicted in some models. We have not officially reached the half million globally with a rate of death of 39,6 per million. These figures are purely figurative as the data out Africa is totally unreliable.
The "confirmed cases" is another misconception as its definition has never been fixed or protocol agreed. Also a cost-benefit analysis has never been made. If many countries had not gone for extreme shut down how would the world economies had survived? We simply dont know.

[pErvinalia]

Your comparison of me to Phelps is a cheap underhand insult and a ploy you often use when losing an argument.

Dunning-Kruger right there.

[rainbow]

Here is a Dutch cartoon.



The RIVM is closed and the sign says follow the directives.

Another Dutch joke you'll appreciate:

A Hollander is like a Scotsman without the generosity.

[Brian Peacock]

Och nay!

[BarnettNewman]

the big policy push from the neo-liberals is to normalise living with an endemic virus and bring the populous to a point where they'll just accept it as a fact of life like they've been primed to accept CO2 emissions and global warming etc.

Bingo.

[Scot Dutchy]

the big policy push from the neo-liberals is to normalise living with an endemic virus and bring the populous to a point where they'll just accept it as a fact of life like they've been primed to accept CO2 emissions and global warming etc.

Bingo.

That is just one aspect. Greater control and the acceptance in the future of other lockdowns for any reason. The acceptance of restrictions on personal freedom. Are all part of the conditioning that has taken place. Wearing masks on public transport and in certain other situations. Greater control of large gatherings.

[BarnettNewman]

ok

[Svartalf]

It looks like our Benevolent Rulers are taking cue from places East and are getting us broken to losing our fundamental liberties.

[Cunt]

It looks like our Benevolent Rulers are taking cue from places East and are getting us broken to losing our fundamental liberties.

Get ready for people to be pressed into service telling people who don't accept the restrictions are not accepting science.

They are DENIERS!

(it's a very common tactic)

Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if they trotted out Greta to scold everyone (though she is getting a bit old to be used this way)

[Scot Dutchy]

It looks like our Benevolent Rulers are taking cue from places East and are getting us broken to losing our fundamental liberties.

I cant argue with that. It will be a very dangerous period.

[laklak]

Heck, it wouldn't surprise me if they trotted out Greta to scold everyone (though she is getting a bit old to be used this way)

Oh, they are using her. CNN has her on the "Coronavirus Town Hall Panel".

Can't wait for some fucker to cough - 'How DARE you????"

You couldn't make it up.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/13/greta-thu ... er-erupts/