Trump Supporters are Imbeciles

[laklak]

Everyone is a moron

Well, not all of them. Some are idiots, some are imbeciles, and some are feebs.

[Seabass]

What I mean is that the supposed anagonisms between these apparently dichotomous groups are faux, manufacutred conflicts. As you say, Bernie supporters and Trump supporters overlap in both their concerns and their conditions, and lately for example how small-stateists also have a vested interest in well-resourced public services. However, when you look to see who is promoting these kinds of conflicts between, generally speaking, regular folk, you find the PR-minded fear-mongering of those who already have the majority of the power. We can't have Bernie supporters and Trump support recognise their common interests, recognising that they have far more in common that that which is said to divide them - we must has teh #OUTRAGE to keep them distinct and separate from each other and at each other's throats.

You're bothsidesing. Most Bernie supporters would agree with you about the rich and powerful. Bernie supporters don't want anything that isn't already the norm in the developed world. The Trumpzis have bought into the preposterous notion that America is "great" because of its whiteness and Christianity and that brown people and immigrants are the source of America's woes.

Nazis vs Socialists, Good vs Evil. But then again...

... the Right's identity politics agenda is a distraction we can all buy into eh?

Read what you quoted again. Who tells people in insecure jobs, up to their necks in debt and only one unexpected expense away from destitution, unable to afford basic medical services, seeing their kids growing up with fewer opportunities and financially worse off, etc, that their concerns and fears can be simultaneously embodied in and magically wiped away by a slogan, that the sight of a black man in their neighbourhood is a moral danger and most likely a physical threat, that their ethnicity and/or religion mark them as exceptional human beings apart from others and therefore deserving of higher regard and greater rewards than brown people and immigrants? Don't you see that these people are grasping at straws?

I'm not 'bothsiding' at all. I'm saying, quite plainly, that ordinary people have far more in common than that which is said to divide them. I'm saying that those divisions are faux, manipulated conflicts and we should look to those who are telling us they represent reality -- that 'others' are separate from us, that their 'otherness' is the root of our ills, and that 'they' cannot and should not be trusted -- whether that's someone saying that progressives are moral bankrupts or that Trump voters are malign idiots. We should ask ourselves, and them, why we should be concerned and frighted by the 'others' and then identify what we, and them, might have to lose or gain by that.

So basically you agree with Bernie and his supporters about the source of our problems, you see that the Trumpists are being manipulated and have bought into a bunch of racist and xenophobic bullshit, but you refuse to take sides.

Sometimes you have to take sides, Brian. Like in Germany circa 1930. Or 'Murica circa 2016.

[laklak]

But the Bernie supporters are being manipulated also. As are mainstream Dems and non-Trump Republicans. I get Brian's point - but - there are very real differences that I don't think you can paper over. Pro-choice and pro-life folks aren't going to get together and sing Michael Row The Boat. 2nd Amendment zealots and Gun Banners aren't going to sit down at the Table of Brotherhood. The urban/rural divide is absolutely real, and it's deep. Neither side can understand the other, and more importantly they don't want to. New York City values do NOT play well in Waynesville, NC, and vice versa. You can blame the Illuminati as much as you want, it doesn't change the fact that there are huge, unbridgeable divides.

[Brian Peacock]

What I mean is that the supposed anagonisms between these apparently dichotomous groups are faux, manufacutred conflicts. As you say, Bernie supporters and Trump supporters overlap in both their concerns and their conditions, and lately for example how small-stateists also have a vested interest in well-resourced public services. However, when you look to see who is promoting these kinds of conflicts between, generally speaking, regular folk, you find the PR-minded fear-mongering of those who already have the majority of the power. We can't have Bernie supporters and Trump support recognise their common interests, recognising that they have far more in common that that which is said to divide them - we must has teh #OUTRAGE to keep them distinct and separate from each other and at each other's throats.

You're bothsidesing. Most Bernie supporters would agree with you about the rich and powerful. Bernie supporters don't want anything that isn't already the norm in the developed world. The Trumpzis have bought into the preposterous notion that America is "great" because of its whiteness and Christianity and that brown people and immigrants are the source of America's woes.

Nazis vs Socialists, Good vs Evil. But then again...

... the Right's identity politics agenda is a distraction we can all buy into eh?

Read what you quoted again. Who tells people in insecure jobs, up to their necks in debt and only one unexpected expense away from destitution, unable to afford basic medical services, seeing their kids growing up with fewer opportunities and financially worse off, etc, that their concerns and fears can be simultaneously embodied in and magically wiped away by a slogan, that the sight of a black man in their neighbourhood is a moral danger and most likely a physical threat, that their ethnicity and/or religion mark them as exceptional human beings apart from others and therefore deserving of higher regard and greater rewards than brown people and immigrants? Don't you see that these people are grasping at straws?

I'm not 'bothsiding' at all. I'm saying, quite plainly, that ordinary people have far more in common than that which is said to divide them. I'm saying that those divisions are faux, manipulated conflicts and we should look to those who are telling us they represent reality -- that 'others' are separate from us, that their 'otherness' is the root of our ills, and that 'they' cannot and should not be trusted -- whether that's someone saying that progressives are moral bankrupts or that Trump voters are malign idiots. We should ask ourselves, and them, why we should be concerned and frighted by the 'others' and then identify what we, and them, might have to lose or gain by that.

So basically you agree with Bernie and his supporters about the source of our problems, you see that the Trumpists are being manipulated and have bought into a bunch of racist and xenophobic bullshit, but you refuse to take sides.

Sometimes you have to take sides, Brian. Like in Germany circa 1930. Or 'Murica circa 2016.

Good. Good. Let the hate flow through you...

What about addressing what I've actually said rather than putting words in my mouth? If you don't think that you've put words in my mouth you could start by demonstrating where I've avoided taking a position on racism or xenophobia or explicitly said that I don't take a sides on those issues. Once you've done that you might like to reflect on whether venting you spleen by comparing me to a Nazi appeaser was really the best you could do...



So now we've trolled each other good let's get to the main course. Sure, what I'm saying is challenging. That's deliberate. I've challenged the idea that people who voted for or support Trump are automatically rendered malign bigots and/or cognitively impaired by their action. I want to challenge the basis of our moral intuitions and our inclinations to casually cast them onto others as facts backed by whatever post hoc justification we can lay our hands on. I want to challenge judgements about the type and kind of people who are apparently responsible for the world's ills, who are a part of or the root cause of 'the problem', whether those kinds of allegations are levelled against Muslims or Trumpists or whatever group of regular, ordinary human beings. In other words, I think you're shooting at the wrong duck.

So then: fancy a chat about any of that? Feel free to rewind to a previous post and pick up from there.

[Seabass]

What I mean is that the supposed anagonisms between these apparently dichotomous groups are faux, manufacutred conflicts. As you say, Bernie supporters and Trump supporters overlap in both their concerns and their conditions, and lately for example how small-stateists also have a vested interest in well-resourced public services. However, when you look to see who is promoting these kinds of conflicts between, generally speaking, regular folk, you find the PR-minded fear-mongering of those who already have the majority of the power. We can't have Bernie supporters and Trump support recognise their common interests, recognising that they have far more in common that that which is said to divide them - we must has teh #OUTRAGE to keep them distinct and separate from each other and at each other's throats.

You're bothsidesing. Most Bernie supporters would agree with you about the rich and powerful. Bernie supporters don't want anything that isn't already the norm in the developed world. The Trumpzis have bought into the preposterous notion that America is "great" because of its whiteness and Christianity and that brown people and immigrants are the source of America's woes.

Nazis vs Socialists, Good vs Evil. But then again...

... the Right's identity politics agenda is a distraction we can all buy into eh?

Read what you quoted again. Who tells people in insecure jobs, up to their necks in debt and only one unexpected expense away from destitution, unable to afford basic medical services, seeing their kids growing up with fewer opportunities and financially worse off, etc, that their concerns and fears can be simultaneously embodied in and magically wiped away by a slogan, that the sight of a black man in their neighbourhood is a moral danger and most likely a physical threat, that their ethnicity and/or religion mark them as exceptional human beings apart from others and therefore deserving of higher regard and greater rewards than brown people and immigrants? Don't you see that these people are grasping at straws?

I'm not 'bothsiding' at all. I'm saying, quite plainly, that ordinary people have far more in common than that which is said to divide them. I'm saying that those divisions are faux, manipulated conflicts and we should look to those who are telling us they represent reality -- that 'others' are separate from us, that their 'otherness' is the root of our ills, and that 'they' cannot and should not be trusted -- whether that's someone saying that progressives are moral bankrupts or that Trump voters are malign idiots. We should ask ourselves, and them, why we should be concerned and frighted by the 'others' and then identify what we, and them, might have to lose or gain by that.

So basically you agree with Bernie and his supporters about the source of our problems, you see that the Trumpists are being manipulated and have bought into a bunch of racist and xenophobic bullshit, but you refuse to take sides.

Sometimes you have to take sides, Brian. Like in Germany circa 1930. Or 'Murica circa 2016.

Good. Good. Let the hate flow through you...

What about addressing what I've actually said rather than putting words in my mouth? If you don't think that you've put words in my mouth you could start by demonstrating where I've avoided taking a position on racism or xenophobia or explicitly said that I don't take a sides on those issues. Once you've done that you might like to reflect on whether venting you spleen by comparing me to a Nazi appeaser was really the best you could do...



So now we've trolled each other good let's get to the main course. Sure, what I'm saying is challenging. That's deliberate. I've challenged the idea that people who voted for or support Trump are automatically rendered malign bigots and/or cognitively impaired by their action. I want to challenge the basis of our moral intuitions and our inclinations to casually cast them onto others as facts backed by whatever post hoc justification we can lay our hands on. I want to challenge judgements about the type and kind of people who are apparently responsible for the world's ills, who are a part of or the root cause of 'the problem', whether those kinds of allegations are levelled against Muslims or Trumpists or whatever group of regular, ordinary human beings. In other words, I think you're shooting at the wrong duck.

So then: fancy a chat about any of that? Feel free to rewind to a previous post and pick up from there.

The Nazi party existed for two decades before it liquidated its first Jew. Today, we tend to see the Nazis as machine gun toting, swastika wearing movie stereotypes, but the fact is, they were just moms and dads, and brothers and sisters, students, co-workers, joggers, bird-watchers, stamp collectors, and violinists, just like everyone else. They were otherwise normal people who got swept up in an ugly political movement that scapegoated minorities and immigrants, a political movement that would eventually end up killing 70 million. I guess my attitude toward them is: "fuck 'em". (I'm not talking about the people who were forced to work in bullet factories, obviously)

Maybe I feel more threatened by these Trumpzis than you do because you're a white guy living in Britain and I'm a yellow guy living in Trumpmerica. Maybe I'm just meaner than you. Maybe I'm a hateful person. I guess I will just say in my defense that at least when I hate someone it's for what's on the inside, and not what's on the outside. I hate bigots and ethnic cleansers. I can't help it. I'm probably too old to change.

[Scot Dutchy]

[JimC]

When brain-washed followers of a cult do horrible things, do we blame them, or the cult leaders?

[Sean Hayden]

What an absurd depiction of life in the US Seabass, and from a Californian no less, a state that probably has had more Asian American leaders than any other from both Democrat and Republican parties.

Trump has certainly attracted the white nationalists, a problem we as a country have had since long before Trump. But even they don't think he's pro-white enough, and it would be a stretch to assume Trump supporters and the Republican party in general who regularly vote to restrict illegal immigration share similar views to the white nationalists who want an all white state.

[Svartalf]

When brain-washed followers of a cult do horrible things, do we blame them, or the cult leaders?

both, cult followers willingly give in to the brainwashing, they should know better.

[Seabass]

What an absurd depiction of life in the US Seabass, and from a Californian no less, a state that probably has had more Asian American leaders than any other from both Democrat and Republican parties.

Trump has certainly attracted the white nationalists, a problem we as a country have had since long before Trump. But even they don't think he's pro-white enough, and it would be a stretch to assume Trump supporters and the Republican party in general who regularly vote to restrict illegal immigration share similar views to the white nationalists who want an all white state.

Do you think 100% of Germans who voted for the NSDAP were chest thumping white nationalists who wanted an all white state? They weren't. They were patriots, nationalists, good Christians, salt of the earth, and all that sort of thing. They were victims of a foreign enemy that was destroying Germany from within.

[Sean Hayden]

I think your fear that the US may become the next Nazi Germany is even less reasonable than some Republican fears that we will become socialist. This is a major part of the point you're working so hard to miss. Now, of course, you'll just shout bothsiderismistism.

[Seabass]

I think your fear that the US may become the next Nazi Germany is even less reasonable than some Republican fears that we will become socialist. This is a major part of the point you're working so hard to miss. Now, of course, you'll just shout bothsiderismistism.

It can't happen here? We're better than that? We're too civilized? I'm sure people always say that right before the genocide starts...

[Sean Hayden]

Yeah, okay.

[Animavore]

Imbeciles? Yes.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/da ... E6CbfHHhQE

[Sean Hayden]

--probably a Democrat