Bullshit is useful

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Sean Hayden
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:48 pm

You've got great taste Joe.

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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Hermit » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:47 pm

Joe wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:36 pm
Is there really anything we can add to Harry Frankfort's seminal treatise on the topic?
Having read the essay quite some time ago, I can't remember much detail, but I remember Frankfurt's weird conception of bullshit. Frankfurt regards the truth value of a statement as irrelevant for the purposes of determining bullshit. To him the intent of whoever makes a statement is the distinguishing factor. According to him a statement like, say, "the sun orbits earth" is not bullshit, provided the person who utters it is sincere in that belief. In contrast "the earth orbits the sun" is bullshit if the person says so in order to deceive someone with that statement somehow. I call bullshit.
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Joe » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:48 pm

I don't remember much of it either, but I believe this "scholarly" work proves PHD really does mean "piled higher and deeper." :dance:
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:05 pm

It was one of the first things I downloaded to Kindle, probably as an attempt to make sense of the ample shit posted here. :biggrin:
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:19 am

Joe wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:36 pm
Is there really anything we can add to Harry Frankfort's seminal treatise on the topic?
Read. Saved. Cheers :cheers:
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:21 pm

Just to note that the aquarium cleaner that the intrepid home medical researchers ingested appears to be the same as the active ingredient in the medicine. The dosage is half a gram. Apparently they didn't properly meter their doses.

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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by laklak » Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:18 pm

Can't fix stupid.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Cunt » Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:00 pm

laklak wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:18 pm
Can't fix stupid.
Media outlets tried to blame Trump for this (though Cuomo said pretty much the same thing) and endlessly out themselves as lying fucks, with political (as opposed to honest reporting) motivations.

Doesn't change how many people listen to CNN, ABC and FOX though...
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Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:18 pm
Can't fix stupid.
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by JimC » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:06 pm

So Trump's ignorant statements, speaking as President with all the influence that implies, should attract no blame whatsoever?
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:09 pm

laklak wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:18 pm
Can't fix stupid.
Nope. Half-clever can be even worse.

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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:18 pm

Cunt wrote:
laklak wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:18 pm
Can't fix stupid.
Media outlets tried to blame Trump for this (though Cuomo said pretty much the same thing) and endlessly out themselves as lying fucks, with political (as opposed to honest reporting) motivations.

Doesn't change how many people listen to CNN, ABC and FOX though...
laklak wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:18 pm
Can't fix stupid.
Some people seem obsessed with defending Trump, sometimes inflating or inventing criticism so they can spring to his aid - one-way traffic on a road to nowhere...

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Seabass » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:28 pm

JimC wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:06 pm
So Trump's ignorant statements, speaking as President with all the influence that implies, should attract no blame whatsoever?
It's not only that. Imagine all testing & tracking we could have done by now, and all the equipment and supplies our manufacturers could have produced for our hospitals, if he'd acted quickly instead of gaslighting and lying and pretending there was no problem. I think by the end of this he will have the blood of tens, maybe hundreds of thousands on his hands. We're about to blow by Italy and China within the next week or two.
"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it." —From the OSS’s psychological profile of Adolf Hitler

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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Cunt » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:36 pm

JimC wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:06 pm
So Trump's ignorant statements, speaking as President with all the influence that implies, should attract no blame whatsoever?
That's a weird position for you to have. Even weirder if you are trying to attribute it to me.

Blame is very helpful, when it's aimed at ourselves.

I know I have a blind spot around the orange hobgoblin, but it's pretty easy when all the attacks against him look so ridiculous.

I blame myself for having too much sympathy for the wrongfully attacked. But I also remember that the people telling ugly truths are easily ruined by media. Look at the example of Tommy Robinson...lots of folks call him a monster, and maybe he is. The 'Home Office' though, did investigate some of what he was complaining about. They even promised that they would release it.

Did you read the report? I mean, I get that you can't give time to Tommy Robinson, but the Home Office report should be much more reasonable, and non-racist, right?

If you can't find it, my theory is that releasing it would 'Tommy Robinson' whoever in government was responsible for releasing it.
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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by laklak » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:53 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:09 pm
laklak wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:18 pm
Can't fix stupid.
Nope. Half-clever can be even worse.

I had a programmer who would write these completely indecipherable recursive subroutines in Assembler that he'd call from a C shell out of COBOL Said they were "elegant" algorithms.

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, save me from elegant algorithms.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Bullshit is useful

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:42 pm

Seabass wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:28 pm
JimC wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:06 pm
So Trump's ignorant statements, speaking as President with all the influence that implies, should attract no blame whatsoever?
It's not only that. Imagine all testing & tracking we could have done by now, and all the equipment and supplies our manufacturers could have produced for our hospitals, if he'd acted quickly instead of gaslighting and lying and pretending there was no problem. I think by the end of this he will have the blood of tens, maybe hundreds of thousands on his hands. We're about to blow by Italy and China within the next week or two.
You just invented a perfect solution in hindsight, irrespective of any practical considerations and possible complications at play at the time, and then proceeded to use this "magic solution" --which is how we must think of it at this time-- as the basis for blaming Trump for killing possibly hundreds of thousands of people.
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