All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

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Tero
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:29 pm

It's getting old. your Biden joke. And we knew all the way back with Mueller it was Russia not Ukraine. Empty conspiracy theory.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:26 pm

President of fledgling country still seeking a Trump blessing
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/15/europe/z ... index.html
pathetic.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:09 pm

Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:24 pm
L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:57 pm
Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:04 pm
Does it matter if Biden WAS corrupt?
Yeah
Thanks. It DOES matter, because I think the US has a treaty obligation to cooperate investigating corruption.
If so, then why no investigation of corruption in Saudi Arabia, to which the US sells an immense quantity of weapons? How about Israel? Same situation. We can continue on a list of US allies known for having deep corruption. Corruption that Trump has never shown the slightest interest in dealing with. Why did Trump send Giuliani to Ukraine only after Biden started making it apparent that he would be running for the presidency, and not in the previous years. It's not as if the problems in Ukraine were unknown before then, nor that Hunter Biden's relationship with Burisma was unknown. To believe that there was anything but a bad faith motive on the part of Trump to improve his own political prospects is to be completely gullible.
Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:24 pm
Not nepotism, corruption of a more clear sort. No problem if Biden flies his son around the world on work flights, and he makes contacts and takes a huge payout.

Nepotism can be seen, is pretty transparent. The corruption he asked about is the interesting thing.
A president or vice president bringing family members along to international destinations is nothing unusual. It's been happening for decades. A reporter that was on board the plane for that trip gives a description. Because of his son's business connection in China, I think that it was ill-advised for Biden to have him come along on the trip, because even if his son did no business on the trip, as they claim, it raises the idea of corrupt assistance by the elder Biden. Ideally, a vice president wants to avoid even the possibility that his actions might be viewed to have a corrupt motive, but Biden went ahead with it anyway. We'll see what the investigations show. Claims that there was a corrupt motive, absent evidence, can be dismissed.
Seeking to expand his corruption accusations beyond Ukraine, Trump has accused Hunter Biden of using his trip on Air Force Two to procure $1.5 billion from China for his fund, calling it “a horrible thing.”

Despite Trump's accusations, there has been no evidence of corruption on the part of the former vice president or his son.

Hunter Biden’s spokesman, George Mesires, told NBC News that Hunter Biden wasn’t initially an “owner” of the company and has never gotten paid for serving on the board. He said Hunter Biden didn’t acquire an equity interest in the fund until 2017, after his father had left office.

And when he did, he put in only about $420,000 — a 10 percent interest. That puts the total capitalization of the fund at the time at about $4.2 million — a far cry from the $1.5 billion that Trump has alleged.

[source]
You can read a report on the question, from a non-partisan source in which a conservative author who investigated the Bidens, is quoted. He wrote a book about his findings.
In an op-ed for the New York Times published on Oct. 9, Schweizer [the conservative author] said Hunter Biden didn’t do anything illegal in the China deal. While the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act prohibits a U.S.-owned company from hiring the children of foreign government officials “in the hopes of currying favor with their powerful parents,” Schweizer wrote, it is not a violation if a foreign company hires or does business with the family members of American politicians. Schweizer argues, however, that such “cronyism” should be illegal.

“It gives the politically connected class enormously tempting opportunities for self-dealing, the sort of thing that is blatantly illegal in almost any other context,” Schweizer wrote, adding that Biden landed a deal in China that “he was apparently unqualified to score save for one thing: his father.”

Hunter Biden is not the first child of a prominent politician to be accused of having ties to a company doing business with a foreign country. Indeed, similar questions have been raised about Trump’s own family members.

The president is free to question whether Hunter Biden capitalized on his father’s name to insert himself into a deal that involves investments by the Chinese government. But he goes beyond that to make unsubstantiated claims that Hunter Biden made “millions and millions” from China while his father was vice president and that he hitched a ride on Air Force Two to secure a $1.5 billion investment deal.
I agree with Schweizer, that this sort of thing should not be allowed by law. Once again, it is allowed by law.

As of October of last year, there had been no evidence supporting the claim that there was a 'huge payout' for Hunter Biden out of China. With the intense scrutiny on the Bidens that has continued since October of last year, if it had happened since then, you can be sure we would have heard about it. If the company does well, he may get a huge payout, but as of now, no. If you believe there was a huge payout, you must have good reason, and a reliable source to demonstrate it, so show your cards. I'd say 'put up or shut up,' but I know who I'm dealing with. You don't support your claims, and you carry on parroting Trumpist propaganda regardless.
Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:24 pm
L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:57 pm
Trump did condition aid on Ukraine announcing an investigation into the Bidens. You may find it convenient to be mealy-mouthed about it, but the facts are in plain sight. His motive was to harm a political opponent. He used the power of his office in a blatantly corrupt manner for his own personal and political benefit.
OK, so did Biden. His kid worked for the company involved. Isn't that worthy of further investigation?
You're not comprehending, I expect because you don't want to. Biden did not condition aid on anything but the official policy of the United States and its allies. The reason Trump wasn't able to do that is because smearing the president's political opponent cannot be official US policy. Note that Trump didn't care whether there ever was an actual investigation. What he wanted in exchange for the US aid to Ukraine was an announcement by Ukraine that it was investigating Biden. That would have been sufficient for Trump's needs. Then he could go before his adoring mobs and shout about 'Crooked Joe Biden!!!'
Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:24 pm
Biden was doing what Obama chose (just a coincidence about the EU). Trump IS in charge of official policy. Vindman and some of his recently fired cohorts also thought that 'good policies' should rule, rather than the President.
Obama's official US policy toward Ukraine was developed through official channels, with the Department of State weighing in, and the full force of the US government in support. Strong-arming Ukraine for an announcement of an investigation was not official US policy. That's why Trump had his 'personal lawyer' pushing the scheme. He couldn't ask his ambassador to Ukraine who was known for her work against corruption to do it, because it was never official US policy. This was Trump's personal caper, for his personal benefit. Get it through your head.

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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Cunt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:20 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:09 pm
I'd say 'put up or shut up,' but I know who I'm dealing with. You don't support your claims, and you carry on parroting Trumpist propaganda regardless.
You seem to have satisfied yourself.

We'll see what Giuliani gave to the justice officials soon, I would guess. He did say Ukraine gave him a bunch of info to share.

I guess listening for the actual justice department word is 'kooky' though.
Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:24 pm
You're not comprehending, I expect because you don't want to. Biden did not condition aid on anything but the official policy of the United States and its allies. The reason Trump wasn't able to do that is because smearing the president's political opponent cannot be official US policy. Note that Trump didn't care whether there ever was an actual investigation. What he wanted in exchange for the US aid to Ukraine was an announcement by Ukraine that it was investigating Biden. That would have been sufficient for Trump's needs. Then he could go before his adoring mobs and shout about 'Crooked Joe Biden!!!'
His regular shout (iirc) is 'Sleepy Joe Biden', but ok.
Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:24 pm
Biden was doing what Obama chose (just a coincidence about the EU). Trump IS in charge of official policy. Vindman and some of his recently fired cohorts also thought that 'good policies' should rule, rather than the President.
Obama's official US policy toward Ukraine was developed through official channels, with the Department of State weighing in, and the full force of the US government in support. Strong-arming Ukraine for an announcement of an investigation was not official US policy. That's why Trump had his 'personal lawyer' pushing the scheme. He couldn't ask his ambassador to Ukraine who was known for her work against corruption to do it, because it was never official US policy. This was Trump's personal caper, for his personal benefit. Get it through your head.
Funny, if they had the evidence that he did something illegal, then it is SO WEIRD that they dropped all the evidence before forwarding the articles of impeachbment. Which didn't include crimes, by the way.

It was dismissed because there weren't crimes in it.

We all saw that.

Maybe Schiff is keeping stuff back because of his own good reasons.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:31 pm

A guy on a forum outlines what we all know now. All of us, except Trump base:

I have a hunch what is becoming a big negative for Trump is that even people who normally don't follow/pay much attention to politics are beginning to see that Trump seems mostly about Trump. His latest irritants, his thoughts, what caught his attention. He's not identified with any major policy initiatives. Healthcare, blue collar jobs, border security, an immigration policy. Oh sure, he talks about all of them but what's his plan? What is he trying to get Congress to pass? I would say it appears he isn't doing anything besides Tweeting and scheduling rallies. As one of the guys at work -- someone who voted for Trump -- says, "I thought he was different, but he's the same as all of them. Just talk."

He tries to connect himself to the economy but how many people think it's doing well 'because of Trump' or that he just happens to be 'in the right place at the right time.' Of course his supporters answer is, he reduced corporate taxes and regulations. Okay, but it's a lot harder to point to specific growth that was the result of lowering the corporate tax rate or citing regulations that were eliminated and led to growth in the economy.

/quote.
My summary: people are not stupid.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Cunt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:46 pm

What's he trying to get passed? Judges! Lots and lots of judges replaced, while idiots rant over his tweets.

And the Epstein/Prince RAndy/Clintons/?? story is going to be used (along with his 'child trafficking initiative') to paint a picture about the Dems.

If I'm correct about the story being planned, and that the Republicans are genuinely the ones painting it, I can guess how it will go. 'Randy Andy' who everyone knew banged questionable teens will suddenly be 'pedophile ring leader' and it won't exactly be something defensible.

The crimes ARE horrible enough (if you care to look them up) can you imagine what the narrative from the Reps will be?

He is trying to get elected again. I'm sick of assuming he is some kind of idiot, who constantly gaffs yet somehow comes out successful at the end of every 'gaff'. He's dangerously smart, or his team is. He's very effective. Treating him or his supporters like racists or idiots is fun and everything, but it's gotten a bit old.

If the Dems don't pick up their socks, they might end up with another 1972 (Republicans took 48 states)
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:59 pm

Yeah, like the guy said, a lot of nothing. Abortion blocking judges. They will make abortion a state level matter. Liberals will have to fund "abortion buses" to Chicago.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Cunt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:21 pm

Tero wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 5:59 pm
Yeah, like the guy said, a lot of nothing. Abortion blocking judges. They will make abortion a state level matter. Liberals will have to fund "abortion buses" to Chicago.
That's what I mean.

He distracts the media with 'a racism' or 'an impeachable tweet', and then passes judges.

And while he does, folks are still chanting about how he is an idiot. Considering his win:loss ratio, what does that make his opposition?
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:49 pm

Yeah well he is an idiot. Abortion alone will not get him elected. But, actually, he really has no options to do anything differently. If he gets re-elected, that's another matter. 4 years with now twice as much golfing. He can appoint them judges from Florida.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Cunt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:55 pm

Tero wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:49 pm
Yeah well he is an idiot. Abortion alone will not get him elected. But, actually, he really has no options to do anything differently. If he gets re-elected, that's another matter. 4 years with now twice as much golfing. He can appoint them judges from Florida.
He can win the abortion 'debate' with the public, quite easily. The left has been backed into the most extreme possible position on it, and will be attacked there.

It's like reductio ad absurdim in a live-action play. They play clips of people advocating for abortion after a live birth, and dare anyone on the left to 'interfere with a woman's right to choose'.

This extreme position will put many people off. Not many will say anything about it, because the most voiciferous left are ready to pounce.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:30 pm

27C1F4F9-85A3-436A-A907-ABC4CC0F24AF.jpeg
Yeah that was not what I meant. Just the election. Abortion is not an issue in battleground states, only like Iowa and Oklahoma that the Drmocrats usually lose.
More like Pennsylvania.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Cunt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:38 pm

I'm just giving an example. He constantly pushes Dems to embrace their far-left fringes, then attacks those positions.

Another example is making them seem to stand behind open borders and medicare for undocumented immigrants. Then criticise the nonsenical position.

And the Dems are HAPPY to respond to him with TDS instead of something new. I think Klobichar might have a chance, but I don't know if she'll get enough limelight to show people.

Look at Trump rallies. He is very popular, with all kinds of people. Ignore that at your peril. If you call them stupid, they likely won't be trying to join you.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:49 pm

There is nobody running for democrats that supports open borders. Please don't repeat Foxnews talking points.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Cunt » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:57 pm

I'm not saying they do (some do seem to) but the 'new way forward' act or whatever it is will be used to paint it that way.

As I said, it is a repeating tactic of pushing Dems to identify with their most extreme edges, and criticising that.

If Bernie is for medicare for all, and AOC is for never deporting anyone, it can easily be made to look like the Dems are for open borders and free medicare for illegals. Especially if they can be pushed into looking like they ARE a team.

I'm not saying this is all true, I'm saying it isn't sensible to ignore these, since they look like huge weaknesses.

Have you seen the Bernie / Joe Rogan interview? It's hours long, and Bernie makes some good sense in it. Seems thoughtful, practical and sensitive. He never manages to get that across in 10 second sound clips. Look to the comedians mocking him - he sounds like a fucking cartoon.

How many will take the time? He had a lot to say, but will be held up for whatever the craziest thing is.
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Re: All Things Trump: Is it over yet?

Post by Tero » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:22 pm

Yeah that's a bunch of words. Way longer than a tweet.
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